I was wondering how many people had issues with shooting on annual camps.
It seems to me that the time allocated on camp programmes for rifle training and shooting has not really changed in all the time I’ve been going to camps: you typically see 3-4 hours programmed for “weapon training and testing” and normally a full day on the station range.
Back in the day we used to be able to occupy all of the cadets on this activity: we’ve been able to train people on the No8 or the L98A1 in the time allocated and then run a mix of rimfire and full-bore shooting on the range day.
However, times change. It now takes 2 days to train someone from scratch on the L98A2, while more and more stations seem unable to offer .22 shooting. Unless every cadet turns up having at least completed training on a rifle (ideally, the L98A2) the shooting programme becomes a joke and cannot accommodate all of the cadets on the camp.
My wing has always relied on on-station resources for shooting due to the distances we need to travel, but I know others can supply their own kit. We may be significantly behind the curve in getting all of our cadets trained but I doubt that is unique to us.
We try to programme an appropriate amount of time for range usage, but because of the time it now takes for a cadet to be trained and pass the WHT we ask that cadets come to camp having a valid WHT. I’ve stated it in the admin order and is discussed at the pre-camp visit. That way the cadets get to shoot and experience the whole RAF!
We can’t provide No.8 shooting as we don’t have any weapons!
It is good to see that the problem is recognised from the ACLO side on one camp at least - is there any RAF-level guidance given as to camp programmes which acknowledge it?
If I was advising ACLOs, I’d make a sort of all-possibilities chart as follows:
If a station has No 8 and L98:
Provide a morning or afternoon for training (enough for full training on a No 8 - if enough weapons are available - and refresher training on the L98). Ideally, suggest an alternative activity for:
Those who are No 8 qual’d and current with no L98 trg at all
Camps that have no WI
Provide either a half or a full day to shoot, depending on camp size versus number of weapons/range lanes. Ideally, suggest concurrent or alternative activity.
If L98 only:
As above, but with more emphasis on the alternative/concurrent activity - bear in mind that if it’s L98 trg only then the majority of cadets won’t be shooting and need occupying! Half day only shooting.
If No 8 only:
As per the above, but with less need to provide an alternative if only doing a half-day shoot (as all cadets should be shooting if sufficient training is allocated). Still need to consider concurent/alternative training for those already No 8 qual’d and current during the training period.
i would have thought the shortage in qualified Staff would be as much a road block as it would the lack of weapons or trained Cadets.
I am no RCO so going off experience but to run a range you need at least one other, and on a standard 6 lane barrack range 2 others, ideally three as a minimum.
RCO
1:3 ratio of Safety Supervisor:Cadet (but ideally 1:2)
all of these Staff need to be appropriately trained in the weapon, need to be current on the weapon and have the relevant quals.
assuming you have that, you then need the to apply what MattB has suggested…but of course then also requires ANOTHER qualified Staff member to be WI/SAAI…
It really depends on the kind of range you are using and how many details you are going to have. If you are using a 100m G&Z range you will be spending half the time walking to the targets and back and half a day won’t get many shoots!
[quote=“talon” post=17129][quote=“MattB” post=17114]
If L98 only:
As above, but with more emphasis on the alternative/concurrent activity - bear in mind that if it’s L98 trg only then the majority of cadets won’t be shooting and need occupying! Half day only shooting.
[/quote]
It really depends on the kind of range you are using and how many details you are going to have. If you are using a 100m G&Z range you will be spending half the time walking to the targets and back and half a day won’t get many shoots![/quote]Yes, but in all my time on cadet annual camps I’ve never seen a gallery range booked!
Typically it will be a 6-lane barrack range on the station (or on a station nearby)
A camp may be of about 30-40 cadets at a time, though some are larger and others are smaller.
Camps at Buchan used to use the gallery range at Black Dog (sometimes at least) as there was no range on camp. I’ve been hauled up to help run it as, predictably, they didn’t have any gallery RCOs with them at the camp
Talon are you referring to a Barrack/1908 Range that is located next to an ETR/CGR but with targets at a range of 25m?
Going back to the OP as a SAAI no matter what rank the CC is if they asked me to conduct a IWT on the L98A2, but failed to allocate sufficient time in the camp programme, the training would not be completed and the cadets would not achieve a Current WHT and as such be unable to fie.
I was trained how to pass a WHT on the L98A1 on my first camp, the experience was awful, felt like a sausage factory, and there are important areas that are not covered in the test, and as such my understanding of the rifle was poor, until I undertook remedial training having returned to unit.
Let’s consider that there are only 5 questions relating to cleaning the rifle in the WHT, which would make for a very quick lesson 4!!!
No, he’s referring to a FDA range with targets at 100m (normally Fig 11 on a screen) used for zeroing personal weapons prior to firing on an ETR. At the larger range complexes they are often immediately adjacent to the ETR ranges. We often use one at Hythe before moving onto the main ETR.
[quote=“themajor” post=17266]Talon are you referring to a Barrack/1908 Range that is located next to an ETR/CGR but with targets at a range of 25m?
Going back to the OP as a SAAI no matter what rank the CC is if they asked me to conduct a IWT on the L98A2, but failed to allocate sufficient time in the camp programme, the training would not be completed and the cadets would not achieve a Current WHT and as such be unable to fie.
I was trained how to pass a WHT on the L98A1 on my first camp, the experience was awful, felt like a sausage factory, and there are important areas that are not covered in the test, and as such my understanding of the rifle was poor, until I undertook remedial training having returned to unit.
Let’s consider that there are only 5 questions relating to cleaning the rifle in the WHT, which would make for a very quick lesson 4!!![/quote]
I concur. Had a cadet tell me they had never cleaned a rifle and never used a sling before, yet they had been signed up as having been trained and tested. Thankfully, before firing they came on the full training course run at wing as they said they didn’t think they had the skills
