Thanks for the info, cadets is very new to me , my son only joined a few months ago, I’m concerned the change in policy will impact him & others, so I’m glad it’s been raised on this forum. It would be good to know if there are other cadets being impacted by this change. We joined cadets due to the publicity around its inclusive activities, flying for deaf cadets etc… so I’m really hoping he can take part in all activities & not be excluded due to a blanket decision.
3 Likes
Discovered hear loss 10 years wearing aids, Shooting I remove and wear electronic based HP for the last 20 years, test over last 10 year my earing has basically stayed static, so provides documentry evidance that my civilian HP works perfect, cannot find out the db rating of serviced issued HP so no idea how good it is.
I know where I put my trust, civvy HP any day.
Yes cannot even act aS RCO and console operator, where by you sit at console desk, providing thats 2mtrs away you do not need to wear hearing protect and you still cannot act as RCO/ CONSOLE operator if you wear any form of earing aid, what happened to dynamic RA.
I assume either not while with RAFAC, or you’ve found a route to get it issued to you?
I really appreciate your experience & insight, I think this may be a breach of the equality act, reasonable adjustments should be put in place to allow deaf people to take part. I’m not sure how this decision has been made by the RAF but I believe it needs challenging… my concern is where does it stop for deaf cadets? Will it impact opportunities to fly? Water activities?
1 Like
You might want to read the update I shared the other day from Dan.
If hearing protection isn’t required as part of the role you’re fulfilling then you are good to go.
I practice in Equality law work, and I must confess I’m struggling to see how there are no reasonable adjustments that can be put in place in this situation.
4 Likes
Would it be common in other areas, though, to put an extreme blanket policy in place while assessing those adjustments? Would there then be a reasonable timeline to stick to for roll-out?
In civvie work world, we have OH referrals to fall back on, who can arbitrate these things.
This decision, no.
But (separate thread) you would require a F6424, which you currently can’t get signed off.
I had a quick look this morning- much to my surprise, I couldn’t see anything in AvMed1 that limits cadets who require HAT.
This decision does concern me that someone in the flying world might look at it.
Unless the Comms systems are certified for use with HAT? I don’t know.
With how strict the aviation world is, I wouldn’t be surprised.
1 Like
If you don’t use & have never used HAT because you are completely deaf - can you still take part in shooting?
I agree, and in the 10 years of hearing loss diagnosis it’s the first time he’s been excluded from an activity due to being deaf. So as you can imagine I am struggling to understand this stop notice, especially in light of equality act & reasonable measures.
1 Like
So if my son removed his hearing aids he’d technically be allowed to take part?? I’m guessing not, but it’s an interesting question. I’m also wondering how do they check for hearing in other cadets? Is there a hearing test to be implemented for anyone wanting to shoot? To ensure communication is heard?
Apologies as I am being slightly facetious with the technicalities - the rationale is cadets may or may not hear the commands but that isn’t what is said in the stop order.
Likewise it does not ask us to confirm if a cadet is blind (although I suppose a similar case could be made regarding spectacles)
I agree nothing on the form… however we’ve been asked to have the GP to sign off a form which makes no sense to me…. Is the patient able to meet dvla driving licence requirements… nothing on dvla driving licence requires hearing, so my GP will be as confused as I am I’m sure!
I know….. and I’m not really suggesting removing his hearing aids is a good plan! I know I’m a small voice in a big organisation but someone has to stand up and say this isn’t okay.
5 Likes
My wife is being vocal about this.
She was born Deaf, had reconstructive surgery and has most of her hearing.
She doesn’t wear HAT, but… has a hearing deficit. She’s excluded from shooting (on direction from the TSA), following the Stop notice. She’s not a shooter, but supports as medic.
Has anyone in the safety cell who called this consulted with Deaf/deaf/hard of hearing persons… before calling a stop notice?
3 Likes
It may also be worth raising the issue with your MP even if it is to bring it to their attention. They understand volunteers more than the regular military so should be able to raise this with the appropriate person challenging as appropriate.
As its target shooting the minister for sport would also likely have an interest as well as defence.
1 Like
I feel her frustration, I will continue to be vocal, I’ve requested further information & will keep pushing until we can get a good safe resolution.
1 Like