Shooting and Hearing Aids

Adult Staff
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In here to start with as was looking for appropriate topic but also check if this is cadet forces wide or just RAFAC.

In short if you wear a hearing aid you are no longer permitted to shoot.

I’m sure I’ve done reasonably adjustments with cadets in this situation before but this seems heavy handed & affects both cadets & staff.

I can understand blank with fire & manoeuvres & live L98 if doing run downs but not prone & certainly not air rifle.

@MikeJenvey you aware of any NRA /NSRA policy that can be used to push back.

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This seems like incredible overkill for air rifle. Like you this does make sense for bigger stuff, at least while things are checked and adjustments made.

But once again it would appear that the ‘Reasonably’ in ALARP is being missed, and they’re just going with stop everything.

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My questions are:

Is this cadet forces wide?

Does it apply to air rifle?

Does RAFAC have discretion on what’s stopped?

The other irritation is that this safety update is something I’ve stumbled across not something that’s been clearly communicated & pushed out.

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AFAIK just RAFAC

Yes all LFMT

From what I’m aware of the decision was made by our safety cell not the MOD. I believe it’s being challenged

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One of my good shooting friends had bone implants (last yr I think) - no restrictions that I’m aware of.

I’ll ask him what he uses for ear “protection” - especially with the regards to hearing safety- related commands (& the Bisley hooter).

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I found out about it when it was published to the Shooting Portal on Thursday - Hearing Assistive Technology while blank and live firing

Because I’m following the SharePoint Site (top right corner) I get notifications with Teams via Connections

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I subsequently shared this will all RCOs within my AOR via “Send as email” function within SharePoint.

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I’ve followed up with the publisher and suggested that future shooting “news” is published and then sent by email to all Region & Wing Shooting officers to improve distribution.

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There are discussions on how it affects specific platforms, and how it can be mitigated on the future.

Wait out on further updates.

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I’ve done a search of NSRA rules & regs and nothing comes up for Hearing Aids.

I’ll check with my club County/ISSF coaches who will know if there is anything as one of them is pretty deaf through shooting!

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There is a discussion on this happening today and there should be some more guidance coming in due course. It’s an ‘above us’ issue unfortunately.

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When you say “above us” do you mean above Rafac or above us as volunteers?

One reason I wanted to start this in this thread less I set off the “RAFAC is cancelling everything crowd” & let those discussions be have without too much public stiring.

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My club County Coach/ISSF Coach replied as follows:-

There are no rules preventing shooting by those using hearing aids, save those which some jobsworth may decide to impose in particular organisations. Even the use of ear defenders is a local decision. In both cases, these rules/requirements are driven by the need to cover ar…s , I.e. to avoid allegations later that not enough was done to protect the individual. You may have seen the current mass of claims against MOD for hearing loss allegedly because the ear defenders issued were inadequate so I am not entirely surprised by their approach. For air, ear defenders are not even recommended in most places, except as a means of aiding concentration. Live fire of course is another matter. I suspect that the concern is that using hearing aids indicates a sufficiently significant loss of hearing that any further loss needs to be avoided. So wear ear defenders! I wonder though whether a similar ban on hearing aid users applies on RAF aircraft. I recall my days in the back of C130 aircraft during parachute drops and the scream of the turbine engines. That was a sound to be reckoned with and we endured in on the ground and in the air for hours. Not even ear defenders back then.

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I worry for the future of RAFAC with its approach to managing risk.

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Erm…

There will always be a slightly more cautious approach where young people are involved - MOD earpro issues aside, a “rest of life” issue caused now has far more significant affect.

Again though, we need to know the background and logic here - is it ability to hear safety instructions? Is it risk of worsening the condition? Is it both?

Is this a pause to explore mitigations, or is it already intended to be indefinite?

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The Safety Centre update includes the detail - available here

may be unable to hear safety commands

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I’ve messaged the Safty Centre - there are LOTS of points that need to be answered. Also had input from one of my shooting friends who has skull implants:

Please may I follow up on this notice.

As far as I’m aware, NRA / NSRA do not have any limiting requirements for such hearing assisted tech. I am a Range Conducting Officer with both organisations, as well as being a member of the NRA General Council where any such safety issues would come to light.

I am very surprised that air rifle (AR) is swept up in this notice. This is due to the overall definitions in Cadet Training Ranges. Is this the desired result please?

Statistically I would think that there are very few cadets wearing HAT; I think that in all my time on cadet ranges, I have only ever seen one cadet (behind ear small hearing aid). How many cadets are likely to be affected / disadvantaged please? Has anyone located any such cadets & run a trial with them?

I would suggest that for such cadets that L98 / L144 could be shot using 1 : 1 safety supervisor ratio (to counter the possible inability to hear safety commands). The requirement for MOD-provided ear “protection” for someone who already has a hearing disability is the incorrect approach. What is their system? Is it functional / safe on a range / what is the viewpoint of their specialist audiologist?

Hopefully, this can be moved into an “if necessary” category, especially if a cadet with HAT can demonstrate the hearing of safety commands.

If AR is meant to be included, then in reality, AR shooting is very easily controllable - the range size / number of personnel is very limited; a simple physical (pre-briefed) contact of some kind would be very workable & retain safety standards.

Are other cadets forces working to this restriction please?

Finally, one of my shooting friends has skull implants for his hearing. I outlined the restriction to him & these are his comments.

That’s pretty poor for the deaf folk. Obviously, safety is paramount, but there are ways around this if you are prepared to try. Luckily, with my implants, I can hear really well. Certainly better than many former forces who are literally half deaf but without a diagnosis. Honestly, I would be totally fine with hearing commands, even with ear plugs in because my implants bypass my ears, so I can protect them whilst still hearing, arguably better than those wearing ear protection. Arguably anyway wearing ear protection is at a disadvantage over someone with an implant.

Hopefully, this notice can be amended / rescinded once more in-depth research has been (speedily) actioned.

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Once again, the RAFAC proving we are not inclusive. How long until this cascades to flying - hearing aids not fitting under flying helmets, cadets not being able to hear instruction from the pilots, hearing impaired cadets banned from flying and gliding. The MoD needs to get a grip and remember that HAVE to follow equalities legislation for the cadet forces and HAVE to make adjustaments. A ban is not a reasonable adjustment.

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I feel like this organisation needs a bit of an “equalities act deep dive” where we review things that have evolved gradually over time and take a fresh look at how we should do it.

I notice that the logs officer (Ben) specifically references equality legislation when he pushes stuff out, to demonstrate his considerations, which is a really positive step.

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Update shared from @dazizian

Users of HAT in live and blank firing

It’s been discussed and he’s asking for affected CFAV’s to get in touch.

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Have the HAT considerations been discussed with specialist audiologists / consultants?There are lots of different types / designs, facilitating hearing in very different ways, with sound levels that can be controlled / revised for various environments. The notice is a one stop ban that I don’t think is appropriate.

How many cadets / CFAVs are likely to be affected? I would suggest very few cadets, but a higher number (of more mature!) CFAVs.

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You’d need to read the update and reach out to Dan to get the answers to that.

Just passing on the message

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