Do what is easy, not what is right!
Wait a second…
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Great to read the debate and suggestions. I / we can’t yet give any answers. However, I can say that every single point you’ve collectively raised was debated, in person, earlier this week. Not one suggestion I’ve read here was not already included for consideration. Whilst none can yet be accepted, the door may be open for future debate and change for some points. That is by no means a hint of returning, or not, to the previous status quo, nor is it a guarantee of change.
As and when I can respond to individual points, I will do so, but it will be via Teams, SP, email, etc., first. I’ll then provide links here, ensuring nobody has to go hunting whilst keeping things in official channels.
To reiterate my request: please contact me if this stop notice directly impacts you.
As always, I don’t mean to quash debate, only to avoid an information vacuum.
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Asking people to demonstrate they can hear safety instructions is not seen as inclusive, so we just ban everyone we think might not be able to hear them instead? Have I got that right?
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Only if this …
… is true.
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Out of curiosity has it been removed & if so what was the rationale? (or was it something that appeared minor that slipped off the way of doing things) ?
I can imagine someone not related to shooting claiming we shouldn’t do it due to overthinking dyspraxia or something similar rather than a formal change.
Probably.
I always changed it everytime to see if they we actually listening.
“Raise your left foot if you can hear me…” Made for some comedy on the range.
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I got questioned once why photos of cadets & staff on a range showed them smiling like they were having fun as it could be construed that they weren’t taking shooting seriously.
Literally fun police 
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I just tell an OIC Fun Sponge, that they learn when they are happy, engaged, and motivated.
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I do wonder what the initial catalyst was for this to come about. Is this possible to ascertain?
Similarly, it would be nice to have any formal assessment of numbers of CFAVs / cadets who are HAT users. Was that established before the ban? Knowing the numbers might point towards the most effective / timely solution. How many CFAVs know of specific examples of cadets who (a) wear HAT & (b) participate in shooting?
What is the appreciation on high about this potentially discriminating against cadets with such disabilities? It’s bad enough that there is still no solution for cadets who list an “awkward” medical condition on the Av Med 1 form = F6424 action still not feasible. That’s been going for over a yr I think.
Hello, this directly impacts my son aged 13, he wears behind the ear hearing aids, and he was booked for air rifle training today to be told on arrival he cannot join in. I would like any further information available please, I haven’t yet seen the policy so if this can be provided please. I understand safety is the most important factor here, however I believe adequate controls could be implemented to ensure safety to all, reduce risk & allow inclusive training & opportunity. I always advocate a no barriers approach for my son and the impact this will have on him & his future in cadets is potentially very negative. I am sure something can be put in place to support deaf cadets.
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The experts will need to comment, but the immediate restriction is for “blank or live firing.”
Initial Weapon Training should therefore be able to go ahead (what rifle type by the way?) as that doesn’t involve live firing.
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I think being included in initial weapons training to then not be able to put it into any use is possibly worse. My understanding was the training today would include initial weapons training & air rifle shooting. I have a very upset cadet, a blanket exclusion isnt a fair approach in my opinion, it should be risk based.
I think many of us, probably Dan included agree with you. Sadly the RAFAC follows the wider RAF and MoD. There are often strict immediate actions rules that come out because of a safety concern, then once measures are put in place, can be relaxed.
I do agree with @MikeJenvey that your child shouldn’t have missed out on the training. The training may not come up often so even if they couldn’t shoot now, getting the training in would have been good so they can the shoot once the rules are relaxed again, assuming they are.
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Apologies my mistake. , it was just air rifle training today. So he wasn’t able to take part as he’s not allowed on the range due to his hearing aids. Super frustrating because he’s done air rifle shooting outside of cadets, risk assessed, controlled & safe for all.
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I would look at this the other way around - do the IWT in the hope that risk-assessed solutions can be applied quickly in the near future & also as such trg events might not come up for a while locally .
I run our air rifle range on a regular basis, & for the type of shooting / number of cadets, I would suggest that is very simple to apply suitable methodology (touch on the shoulder / leg / arm, whatever) to signal a safety stop if there are hearing difficulties. However, initially I would assess their ability to hear range commands wearing ear defenders. If they could do this adequately, then no issue. We don’t have that flexibility; it’s a hard stop.
The other important aspect would be an assessment of a cadet wearing hearing aid(s) & the noise input when wearing ear defenders.
I was informally chatting last night to another youth organisation instructor (national lead) about shooting - he wears similar hearing aids but has to drastically change the settings when using ear defenders on an air rifle range otherwise the noise levels are too loud.
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Thanks Mike, yep I fully agree the additional controls are easy enough to implement & are used in every day life for my son, tap him for attention, make sure he can read your lips clearly etc. and yes the ear defenders would likely produce lots of feedback on the hearing aids, so that’s something else to consider. Blanket bans may reduce risk but they also reduce opportunity & inclusion , hopefully the rule can be changed to risk based guidance .
Hi Christine. It’s saddening for me to read how your son has lost out. Rifle lessons / Initial Weapons Training events are not included in the stop notice. Such training is unlikely to be conducted at the same place and time as firing (i.e. on the range) as that would require the students to wear hearing protection whilst being instructed, which would be most unusual. If your son were to participate in the training, there is no guarantee that he’d be permitted to fire the rifle in the future. For its limited worth: air rifle training is a simpler and generally more available event than training for the L98A2 rifle, so it is likely there will be other opportunities for your son in the near future. I’ll clarify, with internal comms, that this type of training, where hearing protection wouldn’t ordinarily be worn, isn’t included in the stop notice, albeit with the caveat I provided. I’ll also send you a separate private message.
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I would send a personal message to @dazizian who is national head of shooting and has asked for feedback from anyone affected.
Thanks for your message I have sent you an email along with my sons squadron leader, I believe the air rifle training taking place today is on the shooting range, which explains the issue of him not being able to take part, but it’s worth me double checking so thank you!
Very strange - never seen this before, there is always a suitable location nearby to conduct IWT. If the cadets have to wear ear defenders whilst undergoing IWT, I would say something is wrong.