Sgt (ATC) passed SIFT but still has to do SSIC ? Opinions Pls

That is the theoretical position but does not seem to be enforced at the moment, though the intention is to change that. Even so, there may be legitimate reasons why a person may not be able to make their course within a year but I’d suggest that should be approved at Regional level.[/quote]n

My bold - surely policy should be enforced as soon as it is circulated into the system? No wonder they have had to introduce White Tabs to shame people to go to SSIC - the CoC should have the gumption to enforce the policy on those without very good reasons for attending. It might indirectly improve the calibre of the new NCO Cadre’s going through?[/quote]
You can only enforce the policy rigidly if and only if ATF don’t cancel courses. If you are booked on a course and it gets cancelled, I don’t about where you work, but in the modern era holidays are booked a year or more in advance, we booked our holiday next July this April, just so I knew I could get the dates I wanted and not have to start faffing around.

Put this into the context of an OIC or SSIC, you don’t have a clue if or when your appointment will come and therefore you have to work around the gaps left at work. Our policy at work is no more than one with planned leave, some course for a hobby wouldn’t be enough to be an exception. This doesn’t take into account personal stuff, would you really want to be away at ATF if a close family member was “on their last legs”, died or your wife/girlfriend was expecting.
Oh yes and this doesn’t take into account people who work in schools and can’t take term time holiday. A teacher friend of mine took nearly 2 years to get to do their OIC.

The white tabs thing smacks of a temper tantrum by people in charge who are clueless about the reality of the volunteer staff in the ATC. What propotion of newly appointed SNCO and Officers fail to attend withing 12 months?[/quote]

In my experience, ATF generally cancel courses through lack of take up (from ACO Staff) or if something happens to one of the Directing Staff at ATF last minute and hence cannot deliver.

In the instance where a person has been bounced off a course which then jeopardises their timing out through rigid enforcement of the rules, then this is where the discretion of the respective Regional Commandant would be applied.

I work in the modern era, but don’t have to book my holidays in advance - perk of the being climbing the ladder I suppose.

I don’t accept “you don’t have a clue” when you’re going on course because its all on the system now (names and dates on a spreadsheet and everything)- I don’t know what era you’re referring to? This counter balances the other points you put forward. As for Real Life getting in the way of attending, then the Regional Commandants discretion would apply here also.

As for your Teacher Friend (presumably ATC not CCF) taking nearly 2 years - I am surprised. ATF are pretty good at running courses during School Holiday’s, because get this, there are a number of CCF Officers who also have the same issue. What are the chances?

All this is only as hard as people want to make it - tightening up on the rules and regs will not make things any harder IMO.

What about those of us that are Contractors we dont get holiday pay so if I take a week off thats a weeks worth of wage I lose…

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The point I was making is we all lose out one way or another

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The point I was making is we all lose out one way or another[/quote]

But you do get paid to go to ATF.

[/quote]

The point I was making is we all lose out one way or another[/quote]

But you do get paid to go to ATF.[/quote]

Only if you have pay days left. The last time i attended the ATF I did it for free…

[img]http://sparkliness.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/kleenex.jpg[/img[/quote]

The point I was making is we all lose out one way or another[/quote]

But you do get paid to go to ATF.[/quote]

Only if you have pay days left. The last time i attended the ATF I did it for free…[/quote]

Well, yes. But that’s not ATF’s fault is it?

[/quote]

The point I was making is we all lose out one way or another[/quote]

But you do get paid to go to ATF.[/quote]

Yes you do however I dont know about anyone else but for me thats a big pay cut for a week (What exactly are the rates of pay these days?) So either way it costs me not only time but money aswell im sure im not the only one…

[/quote]

The point I was making is we all lose out one way or another[/quote]

But you do get paid to go to ATF.[/quote]

Yes you do however I dont know about anyone else but for me thats a big pay cut for a week (What exactly are the rates of pay these days?) So either way it costs me not only time but money aswell im sure im not the only one…[/quote]

That’s fair, I don’t know the exact rates, there used to be an annual document which said, but I can’t find one for this year. It’s about £60 for an Officer Cadet and less for a Sergeant. Which is still better than a kick in the teeth.

It is here

[/quote]

The point I was making is we all lose out one way or another[/quote]

But you do get paid to go to ATF.[/quote]

Yes you do however I dont know about anyone else but for me thats a big pay cut for a week (What exactly are the rates of pay these days?) So either way it costs me not only time but money aswell im sure im not the only one…[/quote]

That’s fair, I don’t know the exact rates, there used to be an annual document which said, but I can’t find one for this year. It’s about £60 for an Officer Cadet and less for a Sergeant. Which is still better than a kick in the teeth.[/quote]

You are right it is better than nothing dont get me wrong Im not moaning about it I choose to do this no one makes me but it wouldnt hurt for people to relise what people give up for the ACO not just time.

[/quote]

The point I was making is we all lose out one way or another[/quote]

But you do get paid to go to ATF.[/quote]

Yes you do however I dont know about anyone else but for me thats a big pay cut for a week (What exactly are the rates of pay these days?) So either way it costs me not only time but money aswell im sure im not the only one…[/quote]

I’m not sure how you can say its a “big pay cut” and then go on to say that you don’t know what the pay scales are?

You’re right, you’re not the only one and it is all part of being a Volunteer as a uniformed member of staff.

I’d like to see you bleating to all the CI’s who don’t get paid anything to go to camp (some of which may also have to take unpaid leave to attend) and see how much sympathy you get…

I know roughly what the pay scales are just not exactly until I looked at the link given earlier and its more of a cut than I thought.

I feel you are missing my point I was not “bleating” I was saying how it is for a lot of people I know CI’s dont get paid but a lot of the time the powers that be seem to forget how much time and money we all give uniformed staff and CI’s

As for sympathy I never once asked for any.

I don’t think they do, because we get all the usual platitudes in the young Mr Grace style, but what they don’t ever want is it quantified.

I’ve often said if we worked to rule and only did our parade night hours which afterall is all we are expected to do, the Corps would stop.

But the point people (including me) are making is that it is better than nothing.

I think you’re missing my point - you are still in better position than a CI no matter how bad you think your situation is, as you get paid something. As for bleating/moaning, re-read your posts on this page and see how you come across - 2 of them refer to losing out and you seem to have a desire for some sort of hearty well done from Senior Officers?

Just as well, because I don’t think it will be forthcoming.

We have all been CI’s at some point so we know how it is.

What I was saying is that it wouldnt hurt for them to realise what we as staff uniformed or not give up for the ACO a lot of wing staff that do the job full time forget that for the rest of us its not a job.

The reason I brought up the pay thing was because of going to ATF it may take people longer to go do the course because they cant get the time off work even more so when you are are in a job that you dont get holiday pay for.

[quote=“zinggy” post=10596]We have all been CI’s at some point so we know how it is.

What I was saying is that it wouldnt hurt for them to realise what we as staff uniformed or not give up for the ACO a lot of wing staff that do the job full time forget that for the rest of us its not a job.

The reason I brought up the pay thing was because of going to ATF it may take people longer to go do the course because they cant get the time off work even more so when you are are in a job that you dont get holiday pay for.[/quote]

If you read the DYER Final Report, Brigadier Plastow CBE is very complimentary about the CFAV and recognises the commitment made by them (us). Additionally, if you read the Air Cadet Organisation Strategy 2013-2020, you will see in it that the Commandant recognises and acknowledges the commitment and challenges we face.

Having met 2 of the Head sheds, I can honestly say that they both recognised the commitment and dedication of the CFAV - so what you’re asking for already exists. Whether your particular WingXO pumps your hand all misty eyed in admiration of your commitment when you go to Wing (or not), is a local issue.

TBH I call it doing the job under the terms to which I signed up for, but then there is a growing desire to be recognised for simply turning up, rather than for exceptional commitment these days. Even then, those types get on with it quietly.

The good news for you is that you will be recognised for turning up/continuous commitment - with a Medal.

I know this is a thread diversion but I honestly would prefer a little ‘recognition of my commitment and dedication’ from the cadets occasionally. It’s a lot easier to turn around to another adult and say ‘Look. I’m up to my ears in stuff right now, you know how it is…’ than it is to respond to the little monster saying ‘Well you’re hardly ever here’ OR ‘Why can’t you run activity X every weekend?’ OR ‘Well I couldn’t attend X, but I’m busy/have a life, why couldn’t you come to Y?’

[quote=“noah claypole” post=10597][quote=“zinggy” post=10596]We have all been CI’s at some point so we know how it is.

What I was saying is that it wouldnt hurt for them to realise what we as staff uniformed or not give up for the ACO a lot of wing staff that do the job full time forget that for the rest of us its not a job.

The reason I brought up the pay thing was because of going to ATF it may take people longer to go do the course because they cant get the time off work even more so when you are are in a job that you dont get holiday pay for.[/quote]

If you read the DYER Final Report, Brigadier Plastow CBE is very complimentary about the CFAV and recognises the commitment made by them (us). Additionally, if you read the Air Cadet Organisation Strategy 2013-2020, you will see in it that the Commandant recognises and acknowledges the commitment and challenges we face.

Having met 2 of the Head sheds, I can honestly say that they both recognised the commitment and dedication of the CFAV - so what you’re asking for already exists. Whether your particular WingXO pumps your hand all misty eyed in admiration of your commitment when you go to Wing (or not), is a local issue.

TBH I call it doing the job under the terms to which I signed up for, but then there is a growing desire to be recognised for simply turning up, rather than for exceptional commitment these days. Even then, those types get on with it quietly.

The good news for you is that you will be recognised for turning up/continuous commitment - with a Medal.[/quote]

Maybe it is an issue with my wing.

As for a desire for being recognised lets face it its good for morale we all get days no matter what role you play when you feel like your being taken for granted by either wing or as TL says by the cadets.

I didnt join the ACO for a medal already have enough of them dont really want any more thanks.

[quote=“noah claypole” post=10597]If you read the DYER Final Report, Brigadier Plastow CBE is very complimentary about the CFAV and recognises the commitment made by them (us). Additionally, if you read the Air Cadet Organisation Strategy 2013-2020, you will see in it that the Commandant recognises and acknowledges the commitment and challenges we face.

Having met 2 of the Head sheds, I can honestly say that they both recognised the commitment and dedication of the CFAV - so what you’re asking for already exists.[/quote]
Words and fine sentiment are cheap and invariably empty. They’re hardly likely to say you’re doing a poor job are they?