An email came out from CACWO to WWOs on 21 Aug 13.
To summarize:
"WEARING OF PROBATIONARY SNCO RANK INSIGNIA
All Probationary Sergeants (ATC) with the exception of Ex Regular Forces WOs/SNCOs are to wear the Probationer’s Rank Insignia until successful completion of the SNCO Staff Initial Course at ATF RAF Cranwell. The Probationer’s Insignia is to be worn as follows.
The standard Blue Sergeant Rank Slide with the Anodised ‘ATC’ Insignia affixed as per page 117 of AP1358C with the addition of a plain white slide directly below this. The white slide should be slid within the loop of the blue slide until no more than 2 Cms of the white slide can be viewed from the bottom edge of the blue rank slide. This insignia is to be worn with all forms of Numbers 2 and 3 Dress."
One assumes that the intention is for 2cm to be showing…but of course the order now says “no more than 2cm”. So those clever people who decide to only leave a sliver of white showing will in fact be technically within regs. :ohmy:
[quote=“incubus” post=10440]It has been confirmed as the way to wear them and there will be an amendment coming out shortly.
I know it says “not more than 2cm” but I would expect that to be read as “2cm” and not “a 1mm sliver”[/quote]
Perfect, that’s the way I did it.
However slight problem in that the set of white tabs I have are wider than the rank slide, so they ripple and come out in a trapezium shape. (not overly obvious, but it certainly isn’t neat.)
[quote=“wdimagineer2b” post=10453]Slightly scary how similar our posts are :P[/quote]Disturbingly so!
[quote=“Jonay1990” post=10451]
However slight problem in that the set of white tabs I have are wider than the rank slide, so they ripple and come out in a trapezium shape. [/quote]
You could modify the white tab to make it narrower…
[quote=“Jonay1990” post=10438][quote=“RightOn” post=10435][quote=“wdimagineer2b” post=10416]
If and when I go forward for Sgt, I certainly wouldn’t be embarrassed to wear white tabs - I just don’t see the logic behind having them below the rank slides?[/quote]
Has that been confirmed as the new way to wear them? AFAIK it was only word of mouth from someone who has just come back from SSIC?[/quote]
My reference was ACP 20 PI 301 Para 10, however this just says that “SNCOs will be required to wear white tabs below their rank slides”. It does not mention sliding it into the loop of the blue rank slide until no more than 2cm are showing as per the CACWO’s email (which I haven’t seen).
Where else would you expect to wear ‘white tabs’ on your uniform when they’re associated with the rank slide?
At the top of the rank slide maybe?[/quote]
If I recall correctly, the white tabs used by over-18s cadets (before the introduction of the “Instructor Cadet” tapes I wore as a cadet NCO over 18) were above the rank slide. I’ve not seen how the new reg looks in practice, and maybe if only 2cm is showing it might not be so bad, but I’d have thought having them showing at the top would look smarter.
This is the reason that I’m handing in my notice to the CO in the next week or two when I get back from my hols.
In the last 18 months I have had to attend a BASIC course to become a CI and a USC course to go into uniform. I am ex regular army and learnt how to march years back,I also learnt on the BASIC and USC about Corps drug policy,Corps admin etc. Also on the squadron I have been teaching(quite well I think,judging on results!)for the last 18 months and due to my current career I think I would probably know quite a bit more about child welfare/safety/protection that those who would be doing the teaching.
It seems a bit of a MICKEY take to be asking people to give up more time to go on more courses than is nessasary and counter productive hence my resignation(I was quite happy just getting on with it).
[quote=“squid” post=10461]This is the reason that I’m handing in my notice to the CO in the next week or two when I get back from my hols.
In the last 18 months I have had to attend a BASIC course to become a CI and a USC course to go into uniform. I am ex regular army and learnt how to march years back,I also learnt on the BASIC and USC about Corps drug policy,Corps admin etc. Also on the squadron I have been teaching(quite well I think,judging on results!)for the last 18 months and due to my current career I think I would probably know quite a bit more about child welfare/safety/protection that those who would be doing the teaching.
It seems a bit of a MICKEY take to be asking people to give up more time to go on more courses than is nessasary and counter productive hence my resignation(I was quite happy just getting on with it).
Rant over(for the minute)
Squid.[/quote]
I’m confused - what else do you have to do now that you didn’t before?
Surely you knew you would have had to go on SSIC before this announcement, and this announcement doesn’t change that.
I can’t see what your problem is if I’m honest, and it sounds like you are just looking for an excuse to leave…
The reason behind leaving is all the real problems in the ATC seem to be getting overlooked ie. ultifail, staff retention and general pressure upon staff to jump through more hoops than a performing seal . Adding white tabs to a uniform just seems to be a waste of more time and effort(extra paper work etc.)along with more staff courses to do all the same thing. I dont know what I expected when I got the paperwork through for the SSIC but sort of expected something a little different than what I had done twice before.
[quote=“Squid”]This is the reason that I’m handing in my notice to the CO in the next week or two when I get back from my hols.
In the last 18 months I have had to attend a BASIC course to become a CI and a USC course to go into uniform. I am ex regular army and learnt how to march years back,I also learnt on the BASIC and USC about Corps drug policy,Corps admin etc. Also on the squadron I have been teaching(quite well I think,judging on results!)for the last 18 months and due to my current career I think I would probably know quite a bit more about child welfare/safety/protection that those who would be doing the teaching.
It seems a bit of a MICKEY take to be asking people to give up more time to go on more courses than is nessasary and counter productive hence my resignation(I was quite happy just getting on with it).
Rant over(for the minute)
Squid.[/quote]
What you’re not telling us is what rank you held in the Army or what qualifications you possessed. For all we know, you may have only been in for 5 minutes (or long enough to learn how to march as you put it) and not have achieved NCO rank at all, which may account for why your Wing want you to perform like the seal that you mention in your second post.
On the other hand, if you have spent a fair amount of time in the service and achieved NCO rank, then you would surely want to ask why your Wing expect you to do it? If you’ve already done NCO\Leadership courses, then as the ditty from CACWO states, you don’t have to wear white tabs and your Wing would surely recognise your prior achievements as well as your child protection experience that you mention.
[quote=“squid” post=10464]The reason behind leaving is all the real problems in the ATC seem to be getting overlooked ie. ultifail, staff retention and general pressure upon staff to jump through more hoops than a performing seal . Adding white tabs to a uniform just seems to be a waste of more time and effort(extra paper work etc.)along with more staff courses to do all the same thing. I dont know what I expected when I got the paperwork through for the SSIC but sort of expected something a little different than what I had done twice before.
Bye all
Squid.[/quote]
How much paperwork did you do to get issued some white bits of material? I made my sergeants write a 1500 word essay on how amazing they look. So you must have had it really bad to want to quit.
[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=10454]Who wears these in the RAF in conjunction with a rank slide?
I wonder if someone found a warehouse full of white tabs and looked for some way to use them.[/quote]
I have only seen it once when I was an AC at cosford different trades had different colour tabs and there was a RAF REG Cpl doing a basic photo course as he had to retrade due to injury
So you’re just going on personal preference rather than just accepting the instruction as issued?[/quote]
No, I’m just stating my personal opinion. If I am deemed worthy of the rank, and the instruction is still the same whenever that may be, I shall of course wear the tabs as per the instruction.
