Now we all problems with recruitment… But I think of the bigger issues is retention.
Do many Sqns get this issue this time of year especially with GCSE exams etc?
We, as a rule, don’t suffer too badly with retention around this time of year, more so cadets (rightfully) taking sometimes upto 6 or so weeks out to revise and get clear of the exams.
We tend to shift our training program towards more ‘green’ activities as there is enough academic pressure from school. Also, this year we are going to the local driving range as a bit of a fun night and a ‘welcome back’ after exams, to get people back on board.
[quote=“ears” post=7867]Now we all problems with recruitment… But I think of the bigger issues is retention.
Do many Sqns get this issue this time of year especially with GCSE exams etc?[/quote]
Yes, the biggest problem for us is the disappearance of our senior cadets (and some NCOs), leaving us with a shortage of instructors. It’s difficult to maintain a quality programme, which usually results in some additional leavers.
We also have a retention problem over the summer holidays, when cadets lose their weekly school routine. Additional difficulties back at SHQ are caused by staff and cadets going away on camp. We are sometimes forced to stand down the squadron because of the number of cadets and staff that are away.
We run a summer barbeque at the end of the summer holidays which is usually quite successful at bringing cadets back.
Edit: I hadn’t previously noticed, but the ACO Strategy 2013-2020 makes reference to this issue:
I’ve noticed it more this year than the last couple.
We always run a more ‘attractive programme’ but it still doesn’t mean they turn up. I’ve even taken to going to the kebabery for pizza’s or the chippy and getting food in for break time as it soon gets around.
Personally I think that the cadets coming in bleating on about “study leave” or revising for exams is complete testes. Like my wife and I, our kids basically finished school in the first part of May and dossed around unless there was an exam and it is still like this. Why not doing something that gets you out of the house for a couple of hours goes to the wall, is baffling. All the tosh about revising supposedly night after night means that you’ve not been paying attention in class/doing the work you should have. We kicked our kids out to do the after school things they did.
When I was at school and over the years since when I’ve done a number of CPD exam courses (evening & day study) and never been inclined to taking time off cadets for revision. Going to the sqn 2 nights a week and doing things at the weekend is a break IMO.
[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=7889]
Personally I think that the cadets coming in bleating on about “study leave” or revising for exams is complete testes. Like my wife and I, our kids basically finished school in the first part of May and dossed around unless there was an exam and it is still like this. Why not doing something that gets you out of the house for a couple of hours goes to the wall, is baffling. [/quote]
But surely if these are the very same cadets that enjoy coming to the Squadron every other parade night of the year, why would they be looking for an excuse to not come?
I think the ‘pushy parent factor’ is somewhat overlooked; I know a few cadets on my unit this year were told by parents (including one who is a CI), that they could not attend the Squadron due to the proximity of their exams.
From my point of view, I do have time off of Squadron for pending academic commitments, because it makes sense to do so given the weight/nature of the exam or coursework. Yes, it does offer a break and respite, but sometimes its just not feasible.
I honestly don’t know, beyond media and school induced paranoia and pressure, supported by many parents about exam grades, that in the grand scheme of things are effectively meaningless. When schools actually confess that the pressure they induce is just to make them look good, we might, just might get some commonsense back into education. My eldest daughter has found her GCSEs and A Levels (similarly the other two with their GCSEs) meaningless as employees require pre-employment literacy and numeracy tests, regardless of grade as GCSEs and A Levels have (I found out) a shelf-life of around 3 years. Not one of my children were told this by school when doing their exams. These lies went all the way back to SATS at Primary, another heap of meaningless pressure for the sake of the school.
Thirty four or so years on I wouldn’t have done anything differently. I found then and do now, revising at the last minute is pointless. If you don’t know or understand it after being taught it for 2 or more years, then you aren’t going to after 2 hours reading. The opportunities I was able to take as a 16-18 year old in the Corps that I would have missed had I stayed off to ‘revise’, or do homework (BTW I never missed homework/reports/project submissions) outweigh the potential and it is only potential increase in grade gained by revising. Bear in mind I entered the job market in the early 80s which was as crap for school leavers as it is today, and this was when attainment at school and knowledge gained was regarded as being more relevant to the workplace, unlike today.
As someone who at work does CV sifting and interviews, exam grades are generally overlooked as they provide no differentiation and this does include graduates, much to the chagrin of others. What I look for and so do others is what have these people done that is relevant to the job and what do they do in their spare time, ie what makes them tick. For youngsters the latter is of greater relevance.
My advice don’t ditch the Corps even on a temporary basis for exams, as it’s easy to get out of the habit and harder (or so it seems) to re-engage. The benefits in terms of CV profile are immmeasurable. I’ve had ex-cadets come back and say that even a few years on, it has proved to be the talking point in interviews.
So, two individuals go for a job/uni position and are asked for exam results.
Employer - Tell us about your school exams?
Cadet ‘A’ - I got some Cs and Ds, but I did 5 years in the ATC
Employer - How did you manage both school and cadet life?
Cadet ‘A’ - Didn’t missing a parade night in the last 2 years.
Employer - Did it affect your school work?
Cadet ‘A’ - Might have done but Cadets come first.
Employer - Tell us about your school exams?
Cadet ‘B’ - I got some As, Bs and Cs, but I did 5 years in the ATC.
Employer - How did you manage both school and cadet life?
Cadet ‘B’ - I realised that exam results are the main priority for what I want in the future; so I decided to cut back on my cadet career during my exam revision period. But I have returned to Cadets now.
To me Cadet ‘B’ wins hands down because Cadet ‘B’ realises what comes first, runs both in tandem until he/she has to make the hard decision to stand back from cadets in the short term. Both cadets can show on their CV their devotion, leadership, etc, etc; but Cadet ‘B’ shows extra time management and decision making qualities, he/she made the hard decision to stand back in the short term for future long term gains.
Every cadet is different and pressure should not to placed on cadets during exam periods.
And I am talking from experience, my daughter tried to do both and could have done better in her exams if she had spend more time on revision. But she has been lucky, she finished 7 years in the Corps, reaching CWO and is at Uni doing the course she wanted to do, but her overall grades could have been better. And yes, her cadet career was a talking point but it was not the whole reason for gettingwhat she wanted.
Yes, but it’s not either or. Your two scenarios are not mutually exclusive and exhaustive.
One of the things which separate successful independent schools from unsuccessful ones (and, sadly, the majority of the state sector) is the view that extracurricular activities are not in conflict with, but support and enhance performance in the classroom. You don’t find pupils dropping out of sports, music, CCF or whatever ‘for exams’, precisely because they feed each other. Moreover, such pupils learn to manage their time more effectively and waste less of it on needless checking on Facebook &c.
So, your scenarios should if anything be reversed - the cadet who manages to organise his time so he can get to parade twice a week as well as revise for his exams will be the one with the As, not the other way round.
Our school even has a stated policy on this which is restated to parents if they try to, for example, pull their children out of music lessons during exams. We are instructed to, initially, refuse and quote the policy, although as these are a chargeable extra the parents ultimately can insist. Few do, though - they are usually prepared to accept our advice. We’ve had some experience over the last 166 years…
I’ve always been of the opinion its about time management and prioritisation, not an all or nothing approach often dictated by schools and parents.
The point to bear in mind, is which is ultimately more important to getting a job? GHE, although you tend to overlook exam grades somewhat, surely there is still a baseline that the cadet requires?
The point is, in the employment market of today, grades are important. Take Cdt Bloggs, who decides he wants to join the RAF as a Logistics Officer. Bloggs deliberately puts all his effort into cadets to really show off his ability and suitability (potentially) for a service career. Bloggs does all the gliding scholarships, DoE, flying, camps, IACE etc etc… Bloggs even gets presented with the Dacre Sword. The best cadet he could be. Although the RAF (and other employers) lap up all his cadet experience, its naff all good if he fails to get the 2 A levels A-C and 5 GCSEs A-C, inc Eng and Maths.
There is no doubting its vitally important to be a well rounded person, but part of being well rounded is a decent set of results behind you.
I disagree with the school advising people to not pull out of extra curricular activities, just as much as I dislike parents making children do it. But what I do like, and encourage, is Bloggs to come up to me and ask or let me know that he wants to just back off of Cadets for the next few weeks to concentrate fully. Because its not just the two hours for a parade night Bloggs loses, its the time prepping his kit beforehand and its the fact that after a day of school because of teatime, kit prep and cadets, Bloggs loses a whole evening; twice a week.
No one is in a position to tell me how prepared or otherwise I am for my pending deadlines or exams. That’s down to me, and I make that call.
Absolutely.
Some of these bright things are meant to be the future of the Corps. If they can’t handle the Corps and schoolwork, it’s looking pretty bleak for the Corps if they do become staff. Committing to the Corps as a member of staff at any level requires time management and negotiating skills with family (and work on occasion) to meet any ATC committment. I’ve been lucky in that I got married without doing the living alone bit, so I’ve never ahd to worry to any large extent about domestic things, other than doing my bit. But I know plenty of 20,30,40 and 50 somethings in the Corps who do live alone and get it all done. So as I say a bit of schoolwork and the ATC should be a breeze, if in the main mum/dad are on hand.
[quote=“green monkey” post=7906]surely there is still a baseline that the cadet requires?
The point is, in the employment market of today, grades are important. Take Cdt Bloggs, who decides he wants to join the RAF as a Logistics Officer. Bloggs deliberately puts all his effort into cadets to really show off his ability and suitability (potentially) for a service career. Bloggs does all the gliding scholarships, DoE, flying, camps, IACE etc etc… Bloggs even gets presented with the Dacre Sword. The best cadet he could be. Although the RAF (and other employers) lap up all his cadet experience, its naff all good if he fails to get the 2 A levels A-C and 5 GCSEs A-C, inc Eng and Maths.
There is no doubting its vitally important to be a well rounded person, but part of being well rounded is a decent set of results behind you.[/quote]
There is a baseline and as described you can achieve greater than the baseline and still have a life for 12 months and become the ‘well rounded individual’. It’s the stay away crowd who can lose out on camps, courses and even promotion. I don’t phone cadets or advertise opportunities to cadets who aren’t parading.
I tend to disagree with the example, as experience has told me from former cadets having a personal profile on a CV that includes something like the ATC with NCO responsibilities and so on can trump the pure exam grades as it shows that there is something about the (especially young) person sitting in front of the interviewer or as seems to be the norm, panel of 2 or 3. The older you get it’s still useful, but job relevant experience/skills are also needed.
The Armed Forces are a very specific job market and don’t fit the norm for employers.
Something I emphasise to my cadets:
You’ll never have more time than you do now. You’ll have less free time every year for the foreseeable future.
Until you start paying silly money for a degree with 6 contact hours per week…
(although that gives me more time to spend on cadets! :lol: )
I’m with RB and GM on this one.
Much as it’s a pain to have time when attendances are lower than normal, cadets can’t and shouldn’t be penalised for prioritising their academics over extra-curricular activities; even in the last couple of years we’ve seen the RAF Officer entry standards suddenly jump from 2 A-Level passes to 2 A-Levels at A-C, and uni entry remains very competitive. Generally there are only really two periods of the year it’s a big issue, and there no reason for a Squadron to plan activities so cadets won’t miss out on too much, and to plan around the fact that some of the more senior cadets will have other things on their plate.
Having worked on University Air Sqns in the past (and having been a cadet), it’s the same there. January and mid-May to mid-June are generally quite quiet training wise, both flying and in the ground environment, as the students are given as much leeway as they need; with training evenings this extended to the point where they turn up for half an hour or so, hear the notices and pick up any important gen they need to, then are excused the rest of the training evening (which can also be achieved to an extent by private facebook groups/twitter/forums etc).
So actually, it really should be about ensuring the cadet is allowed to achieve there best academically, with no external pressures at all, whilst also ensuring they aren’t penalised for their absence - particularly there are quite simple ways of disseminating information. 
If it (the above, or similar) isn’t policy from HQAC and the Comdt AC, it should be.
And to those saying “grades don’t matter to employers”, try telling that to someone who was rejected by OASC because they didn’t have 2 Cs at A-level, or whose grades weren’t competitive compared to other candidates? Sadly the world is becoming more and more selective. Good employers and universities will expect very good A-levels (and baseline GCSEs at least). If you are very lucky, and pork up you school academics, you might rescue yourself with a degree, but you’re making life harder for yourself.
On the point of Independent schools, yes, they often do offer better opportunities, and in my past life it was generally fairly obvious that those who were educated at independent and those who been to boarding schools had more opportunities made available to them. With respect to exam pressure and timings, those at a school based CCF environment should be better placed.
I can’t imagine OASC or any employer come to that is going to take people who have all the grades and no personality. The fact that as it seems OASC are worried to a finite degree about grades, is a worry in some respects, as it ignores the individual.
I’ve worked with some extremely bright individuals who have achieved much academically and they are not people you could spend much time with, without a crushing desire to slit their throats, to relieve you of the misery of their company. I have also worked with those who have achieved much academically and retained a life. The latter are enjoyable to be around. Plus they seem to be better at the soft skills.
When you look at someone’s CV and then speak to them, it’s easy to see who has something more to offer than exam grades. I’ve been in interviews with some and felt sorry for them as they don’t really have much of life.
As PM said when comes to cadets turning up it’s largely about time management, a major aspect of an individual that employers expect, regardless of academic ability. If someone couldn’t manage studying and membership of a youth organisation while living at home, what hope is there that they will manage a job and home life. I’ve interviewed people who stopped doing things in the hobby sphere, in their teens or a little later, to concentrate on academics and it shows. Life is all about a mix of things. I’ve worked with people who all they ever had in their lives was work and work related things, no interests to speak of. Which is as sad as the teenagers at the other end of the spectrum.
Why the constant reference to OASC as a benchmark, there is a world outside the armed forces.
The problem is employers can be very selective, so they want a balance both. Missing a few cadet nights isn’t going to turn someone into a recluse with no personality. Failing exams could ruin any ambitions of certain careers, be they HM Forces or otherwise. You’ve got to make yourself as competitive as possible.
OASC, as an example (and used as a fair few cadets do eventually wish to join up, and they are a good example of where definite academic standards are set) aren’t worried at all about grades; all they want is someone who will pass IOT and professional training in the RAF. There’s less chance of someone failing at the academic side if they have a very good academic record - so it’s not a worry, it’s a avoidance of “risk”. In the current time, and probably for a good while longer they can be exceptionally selective at who they even invite forward!
It’s not about time management. You can teach anyone to time manage to an extent (well, almost anyone! :cheer: ). What it is about is getting your priorities right - a far harder skill.
Semi-related, because I assume most squadrons encourage cadets to warn of any absences.
Here’s a poster to put above your absence chits (or whatever system you use).
The problem as I see it is that in the past a cadet had two crucial exam periods in their life; O level at the end of secondary education and A level at the end of further education. Today with semesterised and unitised courses and exams pupils can have exams in Christmas in year 10 (rare but not unheard of, summer in year 10, Christmas in year 11 and finally at the end of year 11. For further education you have AS and A2s.
This means that where in the past pupils would have two periods only, now pupils will have at least four exam periods all results that will go towards final grades. Can you blame cadets for missing parade nights???
Personally I think that this is too much especially in year 10. The ATC produce well rounded individuals, the system should not be weighted against this.
What is better a person with 3A at a level or a person with 3 A at a level, GS, FS, IACE D of E and all that the ATC can offer our cadets.
I think in our case the majority don’t attend due to parental pressure. It is wrong for people to put so much emphasis on such a short stage in life, especially when all the extra-curricular activities possible will give young people just as much learning about themselves and the world as they will learn from school/college/sixth form.
I believe most squadrons will peak at 14-15, with a drop off from 16 onwards. What I’m struggling with at the moment is getting more 13 year olds in at the bottom of the tree!