Retention

[chaz]

[quote=“pEp” post=7969]
I believe most squadrons will peak at 14-15, with a drop off from 16 onwards. What I’m struggling with at the moment is getting more 13 year olds in at the bottom of the tree![/quote]

Now that is the key. What needs to happen in those first three years is that the cadet “buys in” to the organisation - once they’ve been found and recuited. At which point, when they disappear twice a year for a few weeks for their module exams, it doesn’t matter they’re not there, and you know they’ll be coming back.

[tmmorris]

And yet, The Silverback, when Michael Gove tried to limit the taking of AS in the lower sixth, he was shouted down. This was one of his few good ideas. Our school does not take AS in the lower sixth - there is no need to, unless you propose to allow serial retakes - and as a result, we have five terms for teaching and one for exams in the sixth form, rather than four and two.

[chaz]

And yet, The Silverback, when Michael Gove tried to limit the taking of AS in the lower sixth, he was shouted down. This was one of his few good ideas. Our school does not take AS in the lower sixth - there is no need to, unless you propose to allow serial retakes - and as a result, we have five terms for teaching and one for exams in the sixth form, rather than four and two.

You mean, you’re suggesting an exam at the end of two years study to test the retention of an entire subject, not just having bite sized modules? Heretic. :lol:

[ears]

One thing I’ve noticed.

Exams genuinely seem to take place all through out the year bar July - December.

[Batfink]

Count yourselves lucky! One of the schools I work in does core subjects between Years 8 & 11 (EngLit/Lang, Maths, Science, ICT). They the pick 2 subjects to study intensively per year (Yr’s 8(!)-11). The outcome is that pupils have the potential to leave with a large bag of GCSEs… and the school will hit it’s EBac target and shuffle up the league tables.

As such we have no hope of getting any cadets from this school in the following months…

November (first modular exams)
December (revision for first modular exam resits & second modular exams in January)
January (second modular exams)
February (coursework deadlines)
March (third modular exams)
April (coursework deadlines)
May (revision for fourth modular exams)
June (modular exams/final exams for some subjects)
July (induction to their new GCSEs and setting the summer coursework)
August (summer coursework session)
September (resubmission of coursework)
October (revision for first modular exams)

As such, I don’t think we’ll bother targeting any recruitment efforts there in the future!!!

I’m still not sure that the school has cottoned on that Yr 8’s don’t have the same grasp and comprehension of the English language as those in Year 11. As such, I’m expecting an even lower pass rate than when they had a conventional syllabus - and, of course, lots of disappointed pupils and parents - and, with luck, a new Head Teacher and set of Governors come September!

[glass_half_empty_2]

[quote] If someone couldn’t manage studying and membership of a youth organisation while living at home, what hope is there that they will manage a job and home life

It’s not about time management. You can teach anyone to time manage to an extent (well, almost anyone! :cheer: ). What it is about is getting your priorities right - a far harder skill.[/quote]
At a fundamental level prioritisaton goes hand in hand with managing your time. Ask any adult about this regardless of what they do in their spare time?

I just think we have get incapable cadets at times for whom juggling life’s multitude is too difficult. I think when it comes to schoolwork in all guises as a reason for not coming to cadets, scouts OR any other “hooby” is tosh. Nothing much as changed in nigh on 40 years; school still finishes between 1500 and 1530, if not earlier, there is still homework, courseswork and exams. What has changed is the fact that a higher proportion of cadets deem in necessary to stop attending as a result of the same things that have affected their forebears. It is worth remembering that I speak of a time when there wasn’t the fall back of modular exams with re-takes to boost the grade, coursework resubmitted if not good enough and projects/reports/coursework accounting for more than 5%-15% (in all but the art/craft subjects). It was 2 years of study to O and then A Level with a do or die exan at the end of it. Revision other than key points, formulae and methodology was by and large worthless as you needed to be paying attention in the previous 2 years to gain the knowledge.

What is the opinion on the cadet who does stop attending to “revise” (then potentially leaves as they have potentially fallen behind their peers) and still but doesn’t get the required grades OR they do and go to the much mentioned OASC (cradle of all jobs it seems) clutching their required grades having forefeited experiences in their persuit of academic excellence and still don’t get in, for any of the multitude of irrational reasons OASC have for binning people.

I think the model BF put on echoes what seems to be the norm rather than the exception.

In all of this, I wonder what will happen in those schools who open cadet units under the latest govt initiative. Will they suspend them in ‘exam season’? Will they suggest those pupils in the unit do not attend if they have ‘exam prep’ or are struggling to get the right grades to make the school look good?

[chaz]

Nothing much as changed in nigh on 40 years; school still finishes between 1500 and 1530, if not earlier, there is still homework, courseswork and exams.

Yep, and a lot will probably make the same mistake I occasionally made; leave school at 1545, home about 1630-1700, eat, prep uniform, cadets, home, work. Bed at 0000-0100. Mmmm.

What is the opinion on the cadet who does stop attending to “revise” (then potentially leaves as they have potentially fallen behind their peers) and still but doesn’t get the required grades… …clutching their required grades having forefeited experiences in their persuit of academic excellence and still don’t get in, for any of the multitude of irrational reasons OASC have for binning people.

There shouldn’t be “an opinion” required. The point that I’m getting at, is no one in the ACO should be putting any pressure on anyone who decides they need to to take time to do their best in their academics. Missing a few cadets nights over the period of a year isn’t going to cause them to have “forefeited experiences” of any major note (unless they have very bad Sqn staff) - the Air Cadets, very valuable as they are, aren’t life changing to the extent of missing a few nights will ruin your life. I’m not saying they miss every single night during a period either, it’s just they may wish to miss a few - nights before a GSCE exam or A-Level perhaps. On the other hand, a well prepared student may wish to go to the cadet night to relax. Every individual is different.

for any of the multitude of irrational reasons OASC have for binning people.

So what are they?

[glass_half_empty_2]

no one in the ACO should be putting any pressure on anyone who decides they need to to take time to do their best in their academics. Missing a few cadets nights over the period of a year isn’t going to cause them to have “forefeited experiences” of any major note (unless they have very bad Sqn staff) - the Air Cadets, very valuable as they are, aren’t life changing to the extent of missing a few nights will ruin your life. I’m not saying they miss every single night during a period either, it’s just they may wish to miss a few - nights before a GSCE exam or A-Level perhaps. On the other hand, a well prepared student may wish to go to the cadet night to relax. Every individual is different.

The problem is many do stay away every single night for an extended period and other nights inbetween and I am not having staff chasing them to ensure they don’t miss out. When you consider that on average youngsters are cadets for 2-3 years, thus missing odd parade nights or whole periods, at certain times of the year is quite a chunk in percentage terms and certainly affects what they can do achieve. They reckon that missing a week of school each year causes you fall behind and you’re at school 5 days a week for c.6 hours a day for, now, 13 years. By that token missing a week or two of cadets each year, this has to be compounded, several fold. Yes the ATC is not compulsory, but if you want to get the most out of it, you need to attend regularly, which as I say is minimum once a week. If you don’t want to get the most out of it, fine that’s a choice made and outcome accepted. When opportunities are becoming increasingly tight, don’t show up - don’t expect to get to do them.
When you look at the lax attitude some cadets portray, they should think about the staff who are there because they want to be and because of the greater good, suffer those cadets who stay away. There are plenty of nights and weekends that I and no doubt every member of staff in the Corps could just not bother. If they get home after a crappy day at work, odd work patterns or have domestic things they could be doing, but still manage to attend at least one night a week and do the weekends. Could you imagine if staff took the lax attitude to attending/dong things that some cadets do? Bear in mind during the week the vast majority of staff don’t get home at the time quoted for cadets and many staff still have to get into uniform make sure they are smart, eat a meal (or miss it if they’ve got in too late), do things around the home, make sure they are prepped for the evening etc etc and some teachers I know, do marking until the early hours. There are times when I’ve gone to work at c.0600 done a 12 hour shift and gone direct to the sqn (uniform in the boot) and got home c.2300, or been on a business trip with several hours driving and still got to the sqn and done what is required. I’m not alone among staff for this sort of thing. We could say sod it, but don’t. Thus cadets staying off do not endear themselves to staff.
I can’t see a convincing argument for cadets staying away from the sqn (remember I am a parent with older children so fully aware of all the crap schools/govt/media peddle) and most likely leaving as result, to get maybe an extra grade on their exam. There is another side, in that putting your CO down as a reference is something many teens don’t have, ie someone outside school who knows you and what you are capable of. Leave after not attending and I don’t know about others, but my references in this instance, start “I have not been acquainted with x since y and this reference only covers the period of membership of the Corps”.

[papa_november]

GHE, just because you cannot see why cadets might take time off to prep for exams, is no reason for them not to, it isn’t the end of the world. They may well see it as necessary ie realised that they had slacked previously and needed to make up ground, or as I have seen, parents will dictate, and in that case, who are we to argue, bitch or whine. Whether you like it or not, it really isn’t our call how THEY manage THEIR academic studies.

[glass_half_empty_2]

Correct it is their choice how they plan their out of school academics. However I’ve no idea what other’s experiences are, but cadets taking ‘study leave’, seem to expect the sqn is in a time warp and return like the clock hasn’t moved on, then some bellyache when they find no one cares.
In the past I’ve made promotions, selected cadets for camps, courses etc and excluded the cadets taking time out, afterall they’re not at the sqn and I’m not going to select them for things when I’ve got cadets in the same situation attending full time. This affected the daughter of one of my CIs, he wasn’t happy, but had to accept I wasn’t giving her any dispensation just because her dad was on the sqn. Sorry if this seems harsh to some, but as I say, attend once a week and you’re in the loop, don’t and afaic you’re not available. I cannot see why cadets can’t attend at least once a week. You cannot seriously (and I’ve been there) revise 5 days a week day and night, especially as now they’d have ‘left’ school for at least 3 weeks, with attendance optional except for exams. If I were their parents I’d be kicking them out. Just as we did with our three.
Study leave is imo akin to going NEP, it’s voluntary and you’re not considered or thought of for things.

[chaz]

[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=8033]
In the past I’ve made promotions, selected cadets for camps, courses etc and excluded the cadets taking time out, afterall they’re not at the sqn and I’m not going to select them for things when I’ve got cadets in the same situation attending full time. This affected the daughter of one of my CIs, he wasn’t happy, but had to accept I wasn’t giving her any dispensation just because her dad was on the sqn. Sorry if this seems harsh to some, but as I say, attend once a week and you’re in the loop, don’t and afaic you’re not available. I cannot see why cadets can’t attend at least once a week. You cannot seriously (and I’ve been there) revise 5 days a week day and night, especially as now they’d have ‘left’ school for at least 3 weeks, with attendance optional except for exams. If I were their parents I’d be kicking them out. Just as we did with our three.
Study leave is imo akin to going NEP, it’s voluntary and you’re not considered or thought of for things.[/quote]

Or you could embrace the other methods of communication and get the message out. Say, for example, the cadet missing out because they felt they needed to put some extra effort into some schoolwork, which you’ve basically said you couldn’t care about (I assume that is AFAIC?) is, for the rest of the year, far and away your best all round cadet. Are you still going to exclude them from activities/promotions/camps?

Are there any current ATC staff online who can confirm whether or not there is any policy or guidance from HQ Air Cadets on the matter of cadets missing training due to “study leave”?

[green_monkey]

[quote=“chaz” post=8036]
Are there any current ATC staff online who can confirm whether or not there is any policy or guidance from HQ Air Cadets on the matter of cadets missing training due to “study leave”?[/quote]

I’m not aware of any such policy, and rightly so. HQAC should not decree policy that pertains to how cadets manage their time. Should they devise such a policy, they be treading very thin ice!

I cannot see how people give weight to the argument that we, as staff, have any say whatsoever over this whole issue. Some cadets take time off, and some leave totally. That’s not their fault, that’s not the exam systems fault, nor the parents. That’s down to the fact that you couldn’t offer a sufficiently exciting/appropriate/challenging training programme to make them want to come back. I’m a unit commander and a Masters student; when I was approached for appointment I made it known in no uncertain terms that I intend to take time around exams to switch focus. I refuse to accept that that is a result of my time management, because actually, 18 months ahead I was already thinking that, not in the 4 days before exam because I realised I hadn’t done enough revision. I made that decision based o the fact that I dont want to have to focus on other things. Do I really want to go into cadets and get bogged into admin, when I could either revise or relax? No. Regardless of how I use that time off Sqn, I use it to my benefit and to how I best see fit.

[glass_half_empty_2]

Or you could embrace the other methods of communication and get the message out. Say, for example, the cadet missing out because they felt they needed to put some extra effort into some schoolwork, which you’ve basically said you couldn’t care about (I assume that is AFAIC?) is, for the rest of the year, far and away your best all round cadet. Are you still going to exclude them from activities/promotions/camps?

Why would I want to communicate in other ways? Doing that (as I have heard from mates who use FB and Twitter) effectively leads to a virtual squadron, with cadets dipping in and out when it appeals to them. One has closed FB and stopped twitting as it was evident cadets were electing when to attend. Doing drill or similar lots of no shows, shooting, FMS, sports etc as if by magic they all turn up.

I have one cadet who in the 18 months since joining to this Feb was by far and away the most outstanding and reliable cadet in everyone’s eyes and almost a shoe-in for promotion, but since Feb he has attended 5 times, due only to school/parent pressure. He had been phoned and thats when he’s turned up. If/when he comes back, he will be behind the others of his intake, who have attended regularly, not because of favouritism but purely as I said previously the clock keeps ticking and a cadet’s lifespan is short. Surely I cannot be seen to favour him because of past ‘glories’. We are currently starting our promotion process, which I know he is aware of. If he turned up and I were to promote him over others and was questioned, I’m not sure I could honestly justify it, given recent attendance/participation. I now have a seed of doubt as to whether he will be as ‘good’ as he was.

[MattB]

[quote=“chaz” post=8036]Or you could embrace the other methods of communication and get the message out. Say, for example, the cadet missing out because they felt they needed to put some extra effort into some schoolwork, which you’ve basically said you couldn’t care about (I assume that is AFAIC?) is, for the rest of the year, far and away your best all round cadet. Are you still going to exclude them from activities/promotions/camps?

Why would I want to communicate in other ways? Doing that (as I have heard from mates who use FB and Twitter) effectively leads to a virtual squadron, with cadets dipping in and out when it appeals to them. One has closed FB and stopped twitting as it was evident cadets were electing when to attend. Doing drill or similar lots of no shows, shooting, FMS, sports etc as if by magic they all turn up. [/quote]That sounds like a problem with the training programme, not social media.

Why would anyone schedule a night of drill?

[chaz]

[quote=“green monkey” post=8037][quote=“chaz” post=8036]
Are there any current ATC staff online who can confirm whether or not there is any policy or guidance from HQ Air Cadets on the matter of cadets missing training due to “study leave”?[/quote]

I’m not aware of any such policy, and rightly so. HQAC should not decree policy that pertains to how cadets manage their time. Should they devise such a policy, they be treading very thin ice!
[/quote]

Quite, by question was more aimed at whether there was any policy from HQAC which specifically stated that Sqn are not to disadvantage cadets who feel the need to manage their time to maximise their academics.

Why would I want to communicate in other ways? Doing that (as I have heard from mates who use FB and Twitter) effectively leads to a virtual squadron, with cadets dipping in and out when it appeals to them. One has closed FB and stopped twitting as it was evident cadets were electing when to attend. Doing drill or similar lots of no shows, shooting, FMS, sports etc as if by magic they all turn up.

Running a twitter acct for an RAF Sqn, a lot of my followers are ATC Sqns, and I follow them too. Quite a lot seem to use it well; for example the dress for the training evening etc - good for anyone who’s missed the previous evening - but also to announce future opportunities available. If the Cadets are surrounded in an ethos of “you get back what you put in”, and know that their Sqn staff are going to be fair with them, they aren’t going to be “dipping in and out” as they please.

[boxfresh]

Cadets will always pick and choose when they turn up as that is their nature! I lose most of my squadron between March and July as they have exams throughout the period. However, it is the cadets that don’t bother to ask for AA, turn up in the wrong uniform on days when they do turn up (and I agree, if it’s a sports night, suddenly they are all free… ), miss deadlines for paperwork and then expect to be given the same privileges (camps etc) as the cadets who have regular attendance, asked us for AA when needed and contributed to the squadron. I have one such Cdt Cpl who I have to have a little word with tonight about this exact thing…

‘Hat on, no biscuits’ methinks…

[RightOn]

[quote]Why would I want to communicate in other ways? Doing that (as I have heard from mates who use FB and Twitter) effectively leads to a virtual squadron, with cadets dipping in and out when it appeals to them. One has closed FB and stopped twitting as it was evident cadets were electing when to attend. Doing drill or similar lots of no shows, shooting, FMS, sports etc as if by magic they all turn up.

Running a twitter acct for an RAF Sqn, a lot of my followers are ATC Sqns, and I follow them too. Quite a lot seem to use it well; for example the dress for the training evening etc - good for anyone who’s missed the previous evening - but also to announce future opportunities available. If the Cadets are surrounded in an ethos of “you get back what you put in”, and know that their Sqn staff are going to be fair with them, they aren’t going to be “dipping in and out” as they please. :)[/quote]

When I designed my squadron’s website as a lowly cadet sergeant, one of the most important pages I included was the training plan. Through the magic of PHP, the next parade night was shown in the sidebar, letting cadets know what the uniform is and what they will be doing. The TP was updated regularly by the TO, for which I had designed a separate back-end which was simpler than the way I worked on the website.

When I was a flight sergeant, the TO left, and the replacement delegated the task of updating the TP to me. I did so until I left, when I realised that a more logical solution was available. I set up a Facebook page for the squadron on which the CO and myself were admins and from which the CO could post the next night’s uniform and activity - and any other useful information. I also set up a Twitter profile for the squadron and anything posted on the Facebook page is automatically published on the Twitter feed.

The sidebar on the website now has the Twitter feed instead, so that it doesn’t matter if cadets “like” the Facebook page, “follow” the Twitter profile or visit the website - the information is the same and updated in real time.

From my experience, with the odd exception, this has led to increased squadron participation, rather than cadets “picking and choosing” nights they wish to attend - although as MattB says that’s probably more to do with the TP than with social media.

[glass_half_empty_2]

[quote=“chaz” post=8043][quote=“green monkey” post=8037][quote=“chaz” post=8036]
Are there any current ATC staff online who can confirm whether or not there is any policy or guidance from HQ Air Cadets on the matter of cadets missing training due to “study leave”?[/quote]

I’m not aware of any such policy, and rightly so. HQAC should not decree policy that pertains to how cadets manage their time. Should they devise such a policy, they be treading very thin ice![/quote]

Quite, by question was more aimed at whether there was any policy from HQAC which specifically stated that Sqn are not to disadvantage cadets who feel the need to manage their time to maximise their academics. [/quote]
How could you have a policy like that? It would be practically impossible to police without endlessly chasing those who aren’t there with pleading phonecalls, and, would lead to all but abandoning any level of structured and progressive training programme, (something we are encouraged to have) as the suggestion is you have to fit it around the cadets, and more so those that elect to take “study leave”. It would be 1 forward 2 back. I don’t do this with Basic Cadets, they miss a night and they get a handout or revision session if they come to it. Those taking study leave are disadvantaging themselves, in terms of the Corps. How is that fair on those that do turn up more often than not and do parade nights regardless of the activity, to see opportunities given equally to those who aren’t there. Kids aren’t stupid and if they saw non-attenders getting the same chance at the goodies, they may as well say I’m on study leave, as good regular attendance is not a precursor to getting opportunities.

As for social media, the chap who has binned it, started using it for the exact reasons people suggest, ie let the cadets know what was going on. However he found that cadets were using it as method of deciding whether to attend or not, so he pulled them and he is a social media geek, I think he would or should marry his phone. The thing is kids are far too honest (or perhaps stupid) and will tell mates or even put it on social media, why they are or aren’t doing something. Thing with social media is, nigh on anyone can see it and or pass it on.

[chaz]

The thing is kids are far too honest (or perhaps stupid) and will tell mates or even put it on social media, why they are or aren’t doing something. Thing with social media is, nigh on anyone can see it and or pass it on.

Indeed, it can be good and bad, and has to be done properly. As RightOn and MattB have said, what required is an accessible blend of information - and a robust and attractive TP. Secret facebook groups are useful, and, if the kids are too honest as to why or why not they are or aren’t doing something, well, that can be a learning experience all in itself. :cheer:

[Jacques]

Apologies for bumping an old thread, but I thought that this might be useful to some.

I finally got around to writing a ‘Sorry you’re thinking of leaving’ letter that includes a section on school commitments.

Thanks to tmmorris for providing me with a similar letter that his school uses for music tuition.

[quote]Dear Parent or Guardian,

Leaving the Air Training Corps

As your son/daughter has not attended a parade night in some time, we are sending you this letter as a courtesy in case they are thinking of leaving the organisation.

We understand that young people have a variety of commitments that may stop them attending parade nights and special events, including school work and exam preparation.

However, it is worth considering that many leading employers and universities encourage young people to continue their extra-curricular commitments through their exam years. They are looking for evidence of the ability to give long-term commitment outside academic lessons, and progress within the ATC is powerful evidence of this.

We understand that there are many other reasons that young people may want to leave the ATC, and if there is anything we can do to be more accommodating, please let us know.

If your son/daughter would like to leave the organisation, the process is described overleaf. If this letter has been sent prematurely, we apologise and look forwards to seeing them soon!

Otherwise, we hope that your son/daughter has enjoyed their time in the Air Training Corps, and please remember that they will always be welcome if they decide to re-join at a later date.

Yours faithfully, etc.
[/quote]

Hope this is useful to someone.

Download full letter (.docx)