When I previously retired from VR(T), having reached the dizzy heights of Fg Off (had been Flt Lt whils tOC, but had never done OSC so go put back to Fg Off when gave up Sqn), I recevied a nice letter advising me I was entitled to refer to myself as Fg Off RAFVR(T) Ret’d and parade in uniform at certin civic/etc occasions.
So not only for field ranks and above, at least in the VR(T)
Didn’t the rank of AC2 go out in the 50’s?
Or are you really old? 
Yes but I’ve seen driving licences with ‘Flight Lieutenant’ on them and other paperwork with ‘Squadron Leader (Ret’d)’ on them (with the ‘Ret’d’ bit in smaller, almost miniscule text)
Something to do with being some sort of ‘Riding Master’ isn’t it? However, from what I’m led to believe after having worked with a former donkey walloper, ‘riding’ wasn’t strictly limited to horses…
Yep.
The anecdotal (and informal) version of this I heard when going through Cranwell in the years gone by was that you can use retired when you attained a rank you had achieved on merit, rather than on time served.
My branch would have seen me through to Sqn Ldr on time, so had I made it there it would have been bad form to use that with ‘retired’.
Yes, I am very old, but not, after checking, old enough to have been an AC2, so you are correct. AC1 and AC2 were combined in 1964 (April fool’s day, as usual), so I was 4 years out.
Memory is a strange thing and my RAF Record of Service seems to have disappeared through a wormhole in the spacetime continuum, or the back of the filing cabinet (probably the same place as my 3822). Perhaps it was the TAG bit that set me at the bottom of the Air Force pile.
Please remove all reference to “2” and I shall bask in the promotion to AC Retd (but still not use it)
Bit of topic may be. As members of the RAFAC we can apply for membership of the RAFA. So when they parade do we have the right to wear the beret both when serving and when left??
If there was a formal civic parade, and you were marching as part of a formed body of personnel in uniform, you would wear appropriate head-dress.
During some civic/commemorative/remembrance parade, service veterans, which by custom & practice includes former members of the regular, reserve, auxiliary & cadet forces, who have previously served as adults, and been discharged on good report, resigned on an approved basis, or relinquished their commission/appointment (following the recorded completion of at least basic/Part1/recruit training, and be considered to have been efficient in the carrying-out of their duties/obligations/commitments prior to discharge) MAY be permitted to wear formation/regimental/corps-badged headgear, along with appropriate civilian clothing.
The key word is former. If you’re still serving as part of the Cadet Forces, you are not discharged from that commitment, and cannot therefore become a temporary ‘veteran’ member of a parade, wearing the head-dress of a single-service arm of the Cadet Forces (eg not an RAF beret).
In principle, you could be invited (eg as a standard-bearer, by RAFA) to take part in a parade as a RAFA member, in a non-service or non ex-service basis, in which you would wear a RAFA pattern forage cap and the RAFA eagle:world badge.
Equally, again just in principle, you could be invited (eg as a standard-bearer, by RBLS/RBL) to take part in a parade as a Legion member, in a non-service or non ex-service basis, in which you would wear a Legion pattern navy-blue beret or blue Scots bonnet /diced band, and the Legion heraldic lionhead badge.
contrary to Wilf - i would say “yes” in short.
I am a RBL Parade Marshall and look after the local Remembrance parade. of the half dozen veterans who march in suits (shirt, tie* and blazer) with a former service Beret i don’t question them on their eligibility.
perhaps i should?
but i am happy for people to take part.
Prior to being an RBL Parade Marshall, on one occasion I couldn’t make it to the Squadron’s Parade so joined the local one. I asked ahead of time if the WExO and WWO were happy I did so in uniform - they were both happy i was representing the “blue footprint” - the RBL were thrilled i was joining them (we don’t have RAFA on parade) and carried on.
If you rocked up at my parade I wouldn’t be bothered providing you looked the part. I would introduce myself and asked what brought you to the parade but i wouldn’t have an issue.
I would be surprised if RAFA would mind either - its their organisation you’ll be representing when marching with them, not ACC’s - so ask them!
*often a regiment tie or similar
So Wilf, how would that work for me?
I was an NCO in the RAF Regiment but am currently a VR\CFC officer. I take part in a contingent of friends and colleagues from my Regiment days every year on Remembrance Sunday.
So would I (as a current VR\CFC officer) wear a RAF beret with the OR cap badge, or a RAF beret with an officers cap badge?
It’s actually a rhetorical question as I don’t tend to wear headdress anyway but I’m interested to hear what you think…
It would appear if you read the cover, JSP456 is actually concerned with catering provision, logistics and management, nothing at all to do with Officer’s or any other Mess management.
Chapter 20 of Queens Regulations (RAF) is about that, but there is another document which lays down the mechanics, especially reference to the management of what are non-public funds, which are used for charitable purposes.
You will also see that Chapter 38 Section 8/3002 relates to retention of rank and needs to be read d in conjunction with AP1919, unless there is a specific ACP on this subject.
QRs are what makes the whole thing tick and includes the Letters Patent -the Sovereign’s authority, whereas the ACO only exists under a Royal Warrant.
And NO, I have no reason to be bothered about not being eligible to be a member.
My overarching response to that, is that your status once you become ex-serving will be that of a former commissioned officer.
That residual responsibility/obligation/status applies, irrespective of whether it has been applied to someone during regular/reserve or cadet forces service. In your case, you do not revert to become an ORs veteran, once you retire as a commissioned Cadet Forces Adult Volunteer.
(Apologies, please note that I’m looking at this from as logical a perspective as possible, but in seperate parts).
On a relevant and related note: say there was an ex-regular RAF Sqn Ldr who joined the RAuxAF in their previous substantive rank, but was then (say) promoted to Wg Cdr, and eventually retired as a Gp Capt: they would normally retire as a Gp Capt RAuxAF Retd and not as a Sqn Ldr RAF Retd (I can think of real-life examples of this)
Conversely, an Air Cdre RAF who retired from regular service, and joined the remnant RAFVR(T) or RAFVR(UAS) as a ‘local substantive’ Fg Off…when they retired a ‘second time’, they would revert to Air Cdre RAF Retd (and intriguingly, despite being a Fg Off RAFVR, they would wear No5s ranked as an Air Cdre during their whole time as a Fg Off).
But…back to this thing about wearing unifom headdress with civilian clothes during certain parades (which is very-much a tradition we’ve imported from North America): I’m still puzzling over how a serving Regular, Reserve or Cadet Forces person, commissioned/enlisted or appointed, can temporarily become ex-serving. I don’t think there’s much of a modern-day disagreement with anyone that’s ex-service (in the broadest meaning of that term) wearing headdress during a remembrance or commemorative parade, as long as they are not a disgraced former serviceperson (noting that direct personal membership of an ex-service association does not appear to be a full pre-req for taking part in such parades).
My interpretation is that someone who is currently serving as member of a Regular/Reserve or Cadet Force, but is not on duty, AND is aware that there is a formal parade taking place (and they either personally wish, or have been invited, to take part) then they would do so, as an individual in uniform, marching within the body of the sequenced formations in the position appropriate to their single-service affiliation in terms of precidence, and also as a function of their rank.
Because, again- I cannot see how somebody that’s a card-carrying Uniformed Service Person (Reg/Res/CF) can temporarily become ex-service.
(And as to former Officers marching with the former Other Ranks: I think we may see the traditions on this being recreated, in society, as we watch on…perhaps this may apply, via custom and practice, only to Offrs that do not retain rank following retiral)
Note: the above are observations, not absolutes. But they are based upon a lot of experience, common-sense, and just some (informed) opinion.
Please re-read what I posted. If individual off-duty members of the Regular or Reserve Forces that are not a direct part of formations that are marching (eg during Remembrance parades), if so invited, and it is their wish, they can and do form-up in uniform as part of one of their parent single-service units, in the correct location that corresponds with command and precidence.
This is absolutely not a new thing…it has gone on forever.
What is sounding like a “new thing” to me is the concept of an off-duty current regular/reserve/cadet forces adult member marching in civilian clothes (with, or without military headgear) as if they were temporarily an ex-serviceperson. But they’re not…they’re an off-duty Reg/Res/CF member.
Put it another way…that bowler hat only goes on, for parades, once you’ve finally retired. If someone is able to give a logical contradiction to what I’ve just said, I’d be very interested to see it.
I’ve just been forwarded an email which contains the following lines:
The officer cadre on the 1st of December 2017 changed their status from RAFVR(T) to RAFAC. “WE” have not retired as VR(T) as some may believe, this at present is going through legal branch to verify if we can use the term RAFVR(T) Retd for those who have swapped VRT for CFC.
All of which seems to be the opposite of what was stated before the CFC was introduced. Is it any wonder that people are doubting the official lines released from HQAC… 
I though you had all relinquished, not retired.
The problem is that it seems all these announcements were made before consulting RAF/MOD legal advisers.
Apparently an ACF CFAV has sent in a service complaint regarding the change from land forces commission to CFC which has clearly had input from senior lawyers and is being taken seriously. The question remains whether any other service complaints are in motion and whether o r not any one takes outcome to judicial review
Jesus! It was delayed for long enough in its implementation because lawyers had to approve it.
The question over relinquishment/retirement was asked on the CFC page about whether those who had sufficient time in could retire and then move to the new Commission rather than simply swapping one for the other and the answer was yes. (It doesn’t make a huge amount of difference except it would potentially save those of us with No5’s from having to change our Badges from VRT to the new hopping pins).
But it seems only the Army lawyers were really consulted and them not properly because policy personnel had a hard deadline of 2017 for implementation and were not prepared to move.
I’ve also heard that it’s such a mess legally that the SCC have decided to stick with their current system.
(This is what I’ve picked up from colleagues in Tri-service and MOD legal roles and may not be the whole picture).
the next problem is that MOD and RAF lawyers are cheap lawyers, because neither the RAF nor MOD can/will afford good lawyers.
the RAF/MOD legal groups will fudge something that they think will comply with the law - and HQAC, being idiots, will believe them - and then someone will go to judicial review with a lawyer that costs more that a bunch of grapes and two packets of Haribo a day and it will all fall apart over the course of a morning.
buy cheap, buy twice - and shell out huge wedges in compensation.