Bearing in mind how emotive a subject religion can be (just look at this and the connected threads…) surely that in its self is an argument (and a strong one) to keep religion and the aco separate?
To be fair, we get just as animated over matters of drill, dress and administration
(Though I’ll concede that we’ve not blown anybody up over those issues yes)
[quote=“incubus” post=8545]I find it slightly offensive that organisations which for the most part share my morality and who ask their members to behave in a way which is in line with my own personal moral code feel the need to claim this behaviour as their own and subsequently tainting me by association.
There is one part of my moral code which differs radically from that used by most religions though: I would never attempt to indoctrinate a child into my personal belief system but would allow them to weigh up the evidence and make their own decision on the matter.[/quote]
Which is EXACTLY why my proposed Church Parades are NOT Mandatory.
I don’t doubt it - it is incredibly easy not being one :D[/quote]
Yes, I know. I used to be where you apparently are.
I was having a snipe at religion in general, not at you specifically 
Besides, there is Mandatory and there is Mandatory. If we stated that the Remembrance Sunday church parade was not mandatory (it isn’t and can’t be, but we don’t state it) I am sure most people would feel an obligation or indirect pressure to attend. Same goes for BoB sunday, ATC sunday etc. but is probably less relevant for random squadron churchgoings.
It also seems that the idea of a sunday church visit or padres hour has pretty much vanished form camp programmes nowadays (when we last tried to attend a programmed padres hour at a camp the padre was nowhere to be found, though to be fair that was at Wittering and the whole programme was an utter shambles)
During their time in the ATC, cadets must never
• Promote their own religious, political ideals or beliefs to anyone
Then I shall promote the values of the ACO, as they happen to be Christian (and Musim, Sikh and 95% of other religions) in essence in any case.
Given the ACO’s connection with the armed forces and how entwined with ALL religions are with the military, you would need to remove the ACO’s connection with the armed forces and start again. Given we are part of the military organisation, could we say that’s it no more religous input or expeosure to religion of any ‘brand’ whatsoever and still be regarded as a ‘military’ organisation? By religious exposure/input this includes all remembrance / commemorative parades we attend.
I wouldn’t hold a parade night in a church on a regular basis, so no.
Would I attend a ‘service’ in a mosque or temple, yes, as long as it was fully explained what was going on and why and how much I could actually be involved in or would I just be observing. I have attended services from different parts of the Christian faith, even the Anglican from “happy clappy” to high church with ‘bells and smells’ and felt a little bit out of it.
[quote=“Cadet Code of Conduct”]During their time in the ATC, cadets must never:
…
• Promote their own religious or political ideals or beliefs to anyone.[/quote]
[quote=“Induction of a New Chaplain”]Will you as Chaplain of this Squadron exercise a Christian ministry to all members of the Squadron encouraging faith in God, a strong spirit of fellowship and a desire to serve the wider community within which the Squadron is located.
[/quote]
My bolds.
Induction of a New Chaplain (Page 177)
The sooner we forget these fairytales the better.
Religion ought to be made illegal. It’s killed more people than anything else since time began and continues to do so.
I think more accurately, man has killed man, mainly by misinterpreting articles of faith such as the bible, the Koran etc…and also man continues to raise the ire of fellow men by dismissing their FAITH as “fairy tales”. This doesn’t help and further illustrates , on this site anyway - that having a faith makes one a figure of fun.
On another point - not from the poster quoted here - I don’t make fun of those who think that there can be no chance whatsoever of a God of some sort because my faith is strong enough to stand scepticism. Its easier though to see that such a courtesy is rarely extended the other way.
That’s probably because for hundreds of years religion has been shoved down people’s throats.
Tolerance is low because many people are sick and tired of it.
It’s not an attempt to be intentionally discourteous to individuals who chose to follow a religion, simply a case of fighting back against a system of oppression that is only very recently (in the grand scheme) being relaxed.
Sigh. This again. Please be civil people.
Just be thankful it is Christians that you are puttiing down / ridiculing.
Other relgions are not quite so accommodating, as the stories that appear all too frequently show us.
Guns don’t kill people, rappers do.
Oh wait, wrong thread 
Yes, damn those devout religionists like Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Atilla The Hun, William the ■■■■■■■, Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan, Tokugawa Ieyasu, Gustavus Adolphus, Peter The Great, Frederick The Great, Napoleon, Otto von Bismarck, Queen Victoria, Kaiser Wilhelm, Hitler, Tojo, Pol Pot, Joseph Stalin, Saddam Hussein… Oh, hang on…
Could I suggest that we stick to a reasoned debate about how religion affects the ATC, otherwise it’s all going to get very messy.
That would seems sensible.
Generally speaking I don’t think it affects the ATC an awful lot. It is quite possible for an ATC unit to run very well indeed with no religious input whatsoever. The subject of belief (or lack of it) does not impact the way we deliver classification training, or take cadets flying, or run a range, or wander up a mountain, or train to march along the high street, or to train people in first aid.
Religion is only ever needed to be mentioned when planning to take account of someone’s personal beliefs: are they fasting, do they need prayer time, are there first aid considerations, are they allowed to wear a particular thing. Additionally, some of the things we go to have a religious overtone but generally we are there for some other reason.
There is definitely no need for the organisation to introduce matters of faith into what we do: those who want such a thing will most likely already be finding it elsewhere. Similarly, we don’t need to seek out activities revolving around questions of belief as it has little or no bearing on delivery of the subjects which are the reasons that cadets join us in the first place.
[quote=“incubus” post=23595][quote=“MattB” post=23594]There is definitely no need for the organisation to introduce matters of faith into what we do: those who want such a thing will most likely already be finding it elsewhere. [/quote][/quote]Agreed, which is why I found the chaplain’s promise rather inappropriate.
Here’s a thought - should we have chaplains in the ATC at all?
Now, firstly I should stress that my overall opinion of the padres I have come across in my ATC career has been generally positive - they’re interesting and enthusiastic people who genuinely appear to be there for the benefit of the cadets.
But what is the point specifically in their being chaplains? The military I can understand - there are people in the forces for whom religious support is very important, and someone based at (the next equivalent of) Camp Bastion can hardly just pop to the local Church of a Sunday. But we don’t have that issue - the longest that we’re with cadets is generally for a week, during which time (a) it’s highly unlikely that they will be unable to access pastoral services somewhere and (b) it’s fairly unlikely that they’ll be on a camp with a chaplain anyway.
So the question really is what would happen if overnight all chaplains became CIs?
They could still dispense individual pastoral care where necessary - in just the same way as a CI who is a paramedic can give first aid - and they certainly wouldn’t be prevented from identifying themselves as a minister.