This is why I “assumed” that there HAD to be a “simple” workable solution. ((Yes @Cab - I know… those horrible words “assume - simple” and “workable”).
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So, guess what happens for civil gliding / cadets in New Zealand…??
- They are not permitted to fly in non-Service aircraft.
- They have to follow a convoluted protocol (as per ACTO35 as was for RAFAC).
- The cadet body has NZGA membership, this then covers all Cadets under the scheme.
Point 1 seems contradictory to 2 and 3.
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Hi @MikeJenvey , like @Jimothy, I’m slightly confused - does that mean that the cadets are excluded from using “non service” aircraft - but thanks to the protocols in place CAN include the NZGA gliders, provided the protocols are correctly adhered to…?
Grsat to see a teams workshop for using bader platforms more effectively!
However seem to only hear about a lot of these things through the regional admin round up mail drops. So it’s good we have the round ups but not sure how training opportunities like this could be communicated more effectively as its a hugely positive step for volunteer training!
Is this a national thing? I’ve not seen anything!
So, here are the aviation aspects for New Zealand (NZ) cadets. I put the 3 options up to try & generate a bit more discussion…
There was a need to dispose of the gliders quite some time I think (maintenance / finance issues?), hence their current (very practical) approach.
The Civilian Cadet body has NZGA membership, this then covers all Cadets under the scheme, so in essence Cadets are affiliated to NZGA by association & being a cadet until they reach 18 yrs of age or working - then they are expected to join a club as a member.
All private gliding is done through NZGA member clubs so insurance is carried by those clubs for all flying anyway including cadet flying.
Each unit must do its own risk assessment to be approved by an NZCF area office before any flying or gliding takes place. This should include areas such as club risk management plan, instructors approved NZGA (qualified across a common syllabus), etc. Risk Management of commercial operations is required by law in NZ.
This works very well; a lot of clubs have Junior flying rates or such to recognise the affiliation.
Powered flight is more a commercial transaction & no affiliation etc, but risk assessment has to be actioned as in gliding. Many clubs offer a special rate to Cadets at a local level direct with the units. Instructors are once again trained to a recognised level & clubs carry insurance.
NZ Cadets have been doing this since the 1970’s & no issues have been passed on to me.
They hold national Gliding camps as well where civilian 2 seaters & instructors come under an appointed CFI. NZCF facilitates the camp, have NZCF officers as time keepers / ground ops & NZCF sort out cadet travel to the camp & ration it etc.
What a different world. We should be looking at the best options for RAFAC, considering the due diligence / safety guarding as per Air League / Guild of Air Pilots - with OC2FTS in the loop for the latter. Insurance / liability is clearly covered by the NZGA or associated powered fklying clubs - no difference to the BGA or CAA ATOs.
I think I can get more in-depth information about any protocols if needed.
@Cab - how can we move forward with some of these considerations please? Incidentally, no reply yet from your PSO concerning a possible day visit.
EDIT - i believe that the RAF in general is suffering from a (severe?) lack of QFIs - trg cses stopped during Covid & not restarted? We are now in the 2nd 3 yr period of normal posting slots, so a lot of the very experienced QFIs are getting close to retirement, & a lot of the junior QFIs can’t send people solo on the AEFs (not enough experience). I foresee a big problem with the AEFs (let alone the RAF) if this is not resolved.
- Powered Flying - Air Cadet Units teach aviation theory as part of the parade night training, and units typically organise practical Flying Training for the cadets in partnership with local Aero Clubs. There is an annual National Aviation Course, consisting of separate Flying and Navigation courses where cadets will get to meet and fly with other Air Cadets from around New Zealand.
- Gliding - As with flying, gliding training is organised by the unit in partnership with local clubs and is one of the most common activities conducted at Unit level. Gliding is a fantastic opportunity for cadets to learn the basic skills involved in aviation before they get into a powered aircraft, and the National Gliding Course is available for those who want to take their passion for flying further.
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What a brilliant and simple solution @MikeJenvey.
I might also point out what a brilliant opportunity could arise out of this for involving the cadets in a ground capacity on the day too - helping with logging, comms and at a push car park marshalling on “fly-in” days.
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The REALLY annoying thing is that a formalised set-up for pre-approved use of BGA facilities was in final agreement process when ACTO35 was in use. Then it got canned.
Uh oh, that’ll put the kibosh on other ideas then! 
Seriously, I can’t see what concerns there are for due diligence / safe guarding if RAFAC mirrors the protocols utilised by the Air League / Guild of Air Pilots; add on a suitable waiver letter if it makes life easier. I’m waiting for a catch-up with the CEO of the Air League to get more information about their MoU / SLA arrangements (I have examples - they seem very sensible).
I’m also going to get in contact with one of the senior NZCF staff about gliding, etc.
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Nooooooo! Forbidden
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My mistake - I meant to say “ground based synthetic aircraft positioning communication and coordination…”
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So only 40 ACPS places next year 
Better than 0 but still woeful
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That’s terrible. However, personally I didn’t think that the AEFs would have the resources / capacity to do much more than that - coupled with the shortage of QFIs.
A suggested solution (which I provided ages ago during my chat with @Cab, Cmdt RAFAC & 2FTS) - bursary scheme so that cadets can use an ATO of their choice. Nope, too difficult for safeguarding / duty of care.
Looking at how Guild of Air Pilots & Air League use “external” providers, I still think that a bursary is a viable option.
I wonder what the allocated “cost basis” is for one ACPS at at an AEF?? Bet it’s higher than similar hrs at an ATO.
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Out of interest, for comparison, how many places were available annually under the old scheme?
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Tayside was contracted to deliver 150 scholarships per year.
But Tayside weren’t training UKR pilots as well 
An increase in AEF allocations and 40 ACPS is better than nothing, which is what Tayside we’re delivering after they went bust 
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We shouldn’t be using 0 as the benchmark. We should be using 150 as the benchmark.
The QFI hours we are using only takes away from UASs as far as I’m aware. It doesn’t effect the Ukr efforts. From memory when reading an FOI it was @Cab pushing for the assumptions to be dropped that UAS are the priority, and to actually look at giving us more of ‘their’ QFI hours, to allow more ACPSs. But he can correct me on that if needed.
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Well, if resources are tight, then that should open up the possibility of other external options.
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On an entirely different note - and a case of multiple rumours being joined together - as well as a shortage of serviceable aircraft and QFIs and supporting UAS and UKR etc… two things are reputedly keeping Whitehall’s attention… an alleged need to reduce “unnecessary” costs within the MoD and to build up a bit of a war chest… quite literally in case we go to war…
I’ve nothing with which to back those claims up - but like all potential conspiracy theories, it does hold a bit of water…
Either way, it shouldn’t distract from what my original question was - “how could we be better…?”
If there was a budget for 150 students - what’s the saving being used for…? (Don’t suppose anyone has a figure for how much Tayside were charging per student?)
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I would like to know the calculated cost for an ACPS at an AEF versus Tayside.
Civil costs for an hr’s dual flight on a are around £180-£200 / hr for a typical C152, so at the lower rate, that would be £2160 - that would have been about the price per student (12 hrs flying) for the 150 ACPS as per contract at the time. If there was say a bulk 20% discount (at least), that would be about £1700 for flight costs, add on 10(?) days of accommodation / food, say £800, then that would be £2500 per student at Tayside. Throw in travel costs, say £200 average?? Total of £2700, round it up for niff naff & trivia items to £3000. For 150 students, that would have been £450K.
AEF? No idea. Babcock own the LAFT2 contract for the Tutor - how much is that broken down operating AEF? I bet you that an “hourly rate” is much higher than a civilian club!
The RAF supply the QFIs - are their salaries, etc, taken into account? MOD probably own all the land / airfields, so there shouldn’t be leasing charges, albeit there will be maintenance charges for buildings / airfield infrastructure.
Now, looking back at the Tayside “guesstimate” costs, come up with a practical solution (as per NZ cadet forces), & use the safeguarding / duty of care protocols as per Air League & Guild of Air Pilots (which OC2FTS should be aware of!) - give out bursaries - even better if proximity to a CAA ATO meant that accommodation wasn’t required.
150 ACPS - minimising resource issues, spread across the country, easy peasy.
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