One thing we should be doing it working more with the other cadet forces to harmonise our training to allow transfer of skills & abilities.
What this looks like is that at the blue & bronze level equivalents (I.e. basic unit training, advanced unit training) is standardised across all three cadet forces.
This currently (can) happens in shooting but it should be expanded to include first aid, radio, fieldcraft, possible cyber.
This will all greater inter-operability and more importantly sharing of instructors so knowledge & skills can be built up.
The people & knowledge base may prevent us going up but the there shouldn’t be any blockers in going wide to achieve this.
Ignoring the whole approval of civilian BGA & parachute clubs (which have other legal dimensions other than safety), the feeling that pride or embarrassment is being put ahead of working effectively is a fair one as it’s one of the biggest issues amongst the ATC.
It’s an attitude that is sadly prevalent from a lot of the ATC volunteers & it would then be natural for people to then extrapolate & assume that if this is the prevalent attitude amongst the senior people then ergo that attitude exists across the wider RAF regardless whether or not this assumption is true or fair.
@cab (& forgive the tag but I think this does kinda sit at your level) what is needed to combat this perception is a directive to commandant Air Cadets to establish a tri-cadet force working group to harmonise core training competencies at unit level (so blue/bronze, 1& 2 Star, FC & OC).
It will start to give the culture change that you likely want & the organisation needs in order to start progressing forwards.
Do we not already do/use a lot of tri-service stuff? Am I not right in thinking we use the navy’s training afloat to guide a lot of our paddle sports policy? And loads of the shooting and FT stuff is all army already?
Perhaps it’s more that we should work together on it, rather than the RAFAC be bound by Army / ACF shooting rulings but then the ACF being free to do civilian gliding, despite the RAFAC’s restrictions?
I think we borrow the guide & make it RAFAc without formally recognising the qualifications from the other organisation.
Shooting is a classic one - yes in theory we recognise the training of air cadets by other cadet forces but you try getting that info into to bader.
It needs to be a formalised joint working group which will allow the sharing & harmonising of information & training quals.
This principle already exists with in regular services (hence RN pilots being trained along side RAF ones) but we just it to happen in the cadet forces
Indication of how backwards this stuff is in the ATC:
Did a Joint Warrior just before I left in 2010, and my gang (Army, under RM & RN command) was going to be doing FAC, FOO and NGFSO up in Scotland - and I thought it would be an idea to get a small RAF Regiment contingent along for a bit of integration.
Two phone calls, and it was sorted.
They did NGFSO tasks (admittedly under supervision),which they’d never done before, as well as FAC and Arty, which they had. All the living stuff was sorted,rations, accommodation, fuel chits and all that stuff.
Imagine if an CVAF ACF Sgt was on a work course (civvie work) for a month, it was 200 miles from home, and he thought it would be an interesting thing to volunteer at the ATC Sqn 5 minutes from the hotel he was staying at.
How much paperwork would be involved - more, or less, that that required to get people from a different service doing targeting and fire control for 4.5 inch guns?
& this is the question that every OC Sqn has whenever the local ACF invites them to join them on a fieldcraft exercise, or a range practise or the Sea Cadets invite them to go boating or kayaking.
There’s opportunities there, but our systems & culture is undiverse & stagnated preventing us from taking advantage of the opportunities.
100%. Taking our cadets out with the SCC/ACF etc should be a super easy process. If they have it all signed off as safe etc then that should be good enough. Especially with the ACF who are indemnified exactly the same as us at the top end. I can sort of understand why it might get a little tricky with the SCC, but shouldn’t be hard to overcome.
I don’t understand why things like this aren’t made more simple.
In exactly the same way that if you were using an outside training provider - This is who is doing the activity - this is where - this is who is in charge - this is who will be “IC” the RAFAC contingent - this is what we’re doing - here’s a copy of THEIR risk assessment
Sadly we have a bit of a mixed relationship with this way of thinking. And it does confuse me.
We can pay a private climbing centre to run a climbing session for a group of cadets. They provide everything. Equipment and instructors. We can do the same with something like Skiing. Pay PGL to provide it as a service and take the cadet overseas too. With PGL doing all the leg work.
But we can’t let cadet go parachuting, flying or gliding at a civvy site. Not even for an experience flight.
We also can’t let the cadets attend another cadet forces activity without a lot of hoops to jump through. As you say, it should be no different to using any other activity or training provider, yet it some how is.
Regardless of what anyone says, it’s absolutely about the RAF saving face (an air force that can’t deliver flying training so has to outsource it looks bad) rather than any real safety concerns.
If it was the latter, the other outsourced activities, such as the ones you’ve mentioned and more, would also be banned.
We should also be monitoring output from some of our AEFs. CFAV are bending over backwards to get cadets out of school for midweek term time AEF slots that are cancelled at the drop of a hat. Weekend provision has been promised for some time now but never materialises.
I think one of our providers has less than a 20% “go” rate… and then everyone wonders why the OCs don’t want to accept spaces. After one or two reschedules/cancellations I understand why the schools get the hump and also deny the time out.
The cadets that were on our most recent AEF sortie had been waiting about 18 months to fly. As in, they were the sortie chosen for flying slots 18 months ago, and since then we’ve not flown because of various reasons.
Additional factors - CFAV needed on a weekday to take / escort cadets - not always available.
Out of school permission - if not forthcoming, then the “preferred” cadets may not be able to attend = limited options to fill slots, may have to prioritise for those who are home-schooled = not really a fair allocation.
I accept all the above. That said I have found that 6th forms and especially colleges are more open to granting the time off, especially for y12. Also easier to find who to speak to!
So it might be that AEF becomes something for the 16+ cadets for us. With VGS, which do weekends, for the younger ones.
Its more the dates of when and what will be available. Most (i know not all) CFAV do have work and/or family commitments, my personal holiday allowance runs Jan-Dec. Currently the date for RIAT air show 2025 is available (18-20 July 2025) so you can presume the main camp will run 15th-22nd July (or there abouts)
NA&S Camp I wont be far off assuming the dates are 16-23rd August.
However it would be nice for HQRAFAC to be confirming intended camp dates now, also what they are planning to bring back i.e. after the “camp pause” and what Regional/Wing Camps are being offered next year. Luckily Easter is a bit later this year so gives a clear 3 and 1/2 months in the new year to decide if we have a camp there. But the main problem is when the warning order for a camp, that comes out in May/June for a week camp at the end of July or mid August. Speaking from a personal perspective, I have to hope that limited people have jetted off to the sun and booked their summer holidays during that week. Then if you bid for the camp you aren’t guaranteed it so sometimes you end up having to cancel the booked holiday.
Personally I would like to see by December, dates of the camps planned for the following year. With CFAV being able to bid for 3 weeks and everything finalised in February. Then the formal JIs can be done later. Then any shortages can be advertised which might incise some to experience a camp as they didn’t know it was available.
certainly in terms of RIAT (pre-Covid-19) the warning order and “invite” on how to bid for places was sent out before Christmas, typically the end of November and reaching Squadrons early December.
the first deadlines were the end of January - although recognize post-2021 the system has changed a bit
