Reach for the Skies (what could we be doing better)

We always leave for a couple of weeks so they bed in, some turn up full of beans, but then find it’s not for them!

Also puts adding them onto SMS into the beginning of October. Why, you may ask! Puts them into the next reporting period for subs to Wing/upwards :roll_eyes:

If you add during September, your ‘subs due’ is taken as of 30 September. If they leave before the end of the month, you must remove them or you are charge for them, even if they have left.

Even if you add on 1 October, it’s the next period :man_shrugging:t2:

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ACF activities

Reds10 sponsor Dorset Army Cadet Force Skydive - Reds10.

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Fantastic!

Now say again why we aren’t allowed to do this…

@Cab

Because it’s an unacceptable risk for CHILDREN to jump unless a 2* Air Officer has personally packed each parachute and the reserve for each jump. They also need to ensure that only RAF trained pilots are used, and the aircraft is checked out for safety by the Marshal of the Royal Air Force.

With regards to risk…

In its most simplistic explanation - it al comes down to how serious the risk is x how great the potential for failure / incident - with the impact measured in terms of human cost and financial cost.

Ultimately Cab is responsible for all forms of training within the RAF - including RAFAC. He has an Army counterpart that is responsible for all things Army and ACF.

Just because one of these officers accepts the level of risk, doesn’t mean the other does…

BUT…

It would be reasonable to assume that the same training standards and service providers OUGHT to be applicable whichever youth organisation was being trained -RAFAC ACF SCC Scouts Guides…

  • on a side note, the relatively simplistic article made it sound like the group of cadets turned up one morning, were given a bit of a briefing, shown how to exit the aircraft and just got on with it…

So, it begs the question, why does one organisation question the assessment that another is prepared to accept…?

The MOD as a whole is massively more risk-adverse than ever before, not just towards RAFAC, but also to the regulars…

More money and time spent “thinking, planning and risk reducing” than simply getting on with the task…

You joke, but I’m sure one of the reasons given to me was something about not being able to assure the civvy aircraft they use as a jump plane.

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How do we assure airliners when required?

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Shh. Don’t give them ideas

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The Skyvan they usually use is from Kiddlington to Weston is a civvy one, seen it many times, even when they are doing their night jumps.

The experience was not only about the excitement of the jump, but also was a chance for the Cadets to increase their resilience, personal boundaries and realisation that they could achieve things they never thought possible.

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Which was my point long ago, how do cadets go to overseas camps or come from NI to the mainland UK or from overseas Squadrons? The RAFAC is obviously happy that CAA/EASA companies are safe to fly cadets. Do the CAA not certify all ATOs in the UK, yes they do so why the problems.

The RAFAC obviously didn’t do continuing ‘due diligence’ regarding Tayside Aviation, if they didn’t see the collapse there approaching, did they see anything wrong in that organisation?

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That has been my point for a long time - it doesn’t make sense to ignore such certification (& regular audits).

If 2FTS want to do more regular audits, then so be it - but don’t throw away the option of using ATOs.

I get the feeling it’s more about pride / embarrassment (although the latter isn’t reduced by not exploiting civilian capabilities).

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I don’t have that feeling. I do, however, have confidence in the balance of safety and resource demands placed upon me and the subsequent decisions associated with running a 60000 strong organisation.

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So are the ACF being unsafe by using civvy providers for gliding and parachuting, is that what you’re saying?

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That’s exactly what he’s saying, but won’t explicitly say it because that would cause political problems which he doesn’t want to deal with because the outcomes are that the ACF are found to be being dangerous (which won’t go down well) or he’ll be found to be an over the top risk adverse empire builder. #dowhat’srightnotwhat’seasy

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If you truly believe that, then what are you doing to prevent what you must logically assess as unsafe practices by the other cadet forces?

I hope you’re not about to advocate for passive-bystanderism.

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Thats what will be asked in a court if an accident with ACF occurs…

‘Could it have been reasonably forseen’.

Turns out yes. By AOC 22 Gp.

But alas, they did nothing to stop it.

I meant on more of an organisational level.

Of course the RAFAC has declined at all opportunities to clarify why the ACF and Scouts don’t have a problem.

And the point raised earlier about civilian airline assurance is also an interesting one that I’d love to hear your thoughts on.

Is it therefore more about your gut perception of risk, rather than an objective analysis?

I’m not trying to be difficult, I don’t have a background in your level of risk management, which I’m happy to acknowledge is significant.

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I would agree that if this logically follows, you absolutely have a duty to address this, @Cab

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