Reach for the Skies (what could we be doing better)

Adult Staff The Staff Mess
44

I think we borrow the guide & make it RAFAc without formally recognising the qualifications from the other organisation.

Shooting is a classic one - yes in theory we recognise the training of air cadets by other cadet forces but you try getting that info into to bader.

It needs to be a formalised joint working group which will allow the sharing & harmonising of information & training quals.

This principle already exists with in regular services (hence RN pilots being trained along side RAF ones) but we just it to happen in the cadet forces

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45

Indication of how backwards this stuff is in the ATC:

Did a Joint Warrior just before I left in 2010, and my gang (Army, under RM & RN command) was going to be doing FAC, FOO and NGFSO up in Scotland - and I thought it would be an idea to get a small RAF Regiment contingent along for a bit of integration.

Two phone calls, and it was sorted.

They did NGFSO tasks (admittedly under supervision),which they’d never done before, as well as FAC and Arty, which they had. All the living stuff was sorted,rations, accommodation, fuel chits and all that stuff.

Imagine if an CVAF ACF Sgt was on a work course (civvie work) for a month, it was 200 miles from home, and he thought it would be an interesting thing to volunteer at the ATC Sqn 5 minutes from the hotel he was staying at.

How much paperwork would be involved - more, or less, that that required to get people from a different service doing targeting and fire control for 4.5 inch guns?

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46

& this is the question that every OC Sqn has whenever the local ACF invites them to join them on a fieldcraft exercise, or a range practise or the Sea Cadets invite them to go boating or kayaking.

There’s opportunities there, but our systems & culture is undiverse & stagnated preventing us from taking advantage of the opportunities.

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47

100%. Taking our cadets out with the SCC/ACF etc should be a super easy process. If they have it all signed off as safe etc then that should be good enough. Especially with the ACF who are indemnified exactly the same as us at the top end. I can sort of understand why it might get a little tricky with the SCC, but shouldn’t be hard to overcome.

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48

I don’t understand why things like this aren’t made more simple.

In exactly the same way that if you were using an outside training provider - This is who is doing the activity - this is where - this is who is in charge - this is who will be “IC” the RAFAC contingent - this is what we’re doing - here’s a copy of THEIR risk assessment

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49

Sadly we have a bit of a mixed relationship with this way of thinking. And it does confuse me.

We can pay a private climbing centre to run a climbing session for a group of cadets. They provide everything. Equipment and instructors. We can do the same with something like Skiing. Pay PGL to provide it as a service and take the cadet overseas too. With PGL doing all the leg work.

But we can’t let cadet go parachuting, flying or gliding at a civvy site. Not even for an experience flight.

We also can’t let the cadets attend another cadet forces activity without a lot of hoops to jump through. As you say, it should be no different to using any other activity or training provider, yet it some how is.

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50

Regardless of what anyone says, it’s absolutely about the RAF saving face (an air force that can’t deliver flying training so has to outsource it looks bad) rather than any real safety concerns.

If it was the latter, the other outsourced activities, such as the ones you’ve mentioned and more, would also be banned.

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51

And it’s the cadets who suffer.

No AOC22 should ever be happy with the fact most cadets can stay 5 years and get one flight.

Yes, it’s the RAF Air Cadets, but much more important than that RAF link is whether or not they’re getting into the AIR.

Your CFAV clearly find it embarrassing, and I always remember cadets being drawn in by physically getting into the air (mostly).

There are many other organisations who offer the other stuff frequently. What exactly do you think is your USP?

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52

We should also be monitoring output from some of our AEFs. CFAV are bending over backwards to get cadets out of school for midweek term time AEF slots that are cancelled at the drop of a hat. Weekend provision has been promised for some time now but never materialises.

I think one of our providers has less than a 20% “go” rate… and then everyone wonders why the OCs don’t want to accept spaces. After one or two reschedules/cancellations I understand why the schools get the hump and also deny the time out.

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53

The cadets that were on our most recent AEF sortie had been waiting about 18 months to fly. As in, they were the sortie chosen for flying slots 18 months ago, and since then we’ve not flown because of various reasons.

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54

Additional factors - CFAV needed on a weekday to take / escort cadets - not always available.

Out of school permission - if not forthcoming, then the “preferred” cadets may not be able to attend = limited options to fill slots, may have to prioritise for those who are home-schooled = not really a fair allocation.

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55

I accept all the above. That said I have found that 6th forms and especially colleges are more open to granting the time off, especially for y12. Also easier to find who to speak to!

So it might be that AEF becomes something for the 16+ cadets for us. With VGS, which do weekends, for the younger ones.

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56

Right now you’ve said it, IACE is now gone… for the handful of cadets that have done it :grimacing:

(Dear future self and others: this is intended as satire.)

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57

Camp planning (sounds harsh)

Its more the dates of when and what will be available. Most (i know not all) CFAV do have work and/or family commitments, my personal holiday allowance runs Jan-Dec. Currently the date for RIAT air show 2025 is available (18-20 July 2025) so you can presume the main camp will run 15th-22nd July (or there abouts)

NA&S Camp I wont be far off assuming the dates are 16-23rd August.

However it would be nice for HQRAFAC to be confirming intended camp dates now, also what they are planning to bring back i.e. after the “camp pause” and what Regional/Wing Camps are being offered next year. Luckily Easter is a bit later this year so gives a clear 3 and 1/2 months in the new year to decide if we have a camp there. But the main problem is when the warning order for a camp, that comes out in May/June for a week camp at the end of July or mid August. Speaking from a personal perspective, I have to hope that limited people have jetted off to the sun and booked their summer holidays during that week. Then if you bid for the camp you aren’t guaranteed it so sometimes you end up having to cancel the booked holiday.

Personally I would like to see by December, dates of the camps planned for the following year. With CFAV being able to bid for 3 weeks and everything finalised in February. Then the formal JIs can be done later. Then any shortages can be advertised which might incise some to experience a camp as they didn’t know it was available.

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58

Long-term planning ahead… ? I’ll believe it when I see it :rofl:

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59

certainly in terms of RIAT (pre-Covid-19) the warning order and “invite” on how to bid for places was sent out before Christmas, typically the end of November and reaching Squadrons early December.

the first deadlines were the end of January - although recognize post-2021 the system has changed a bit

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60

Is it
?

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61

It isn’t, that I know of, though I probably should’ve marked it as such.

62

Is this because HQAC have spotted the irregularity at not recognising CAA’s airworthiness accreditation of civilian aircraft?

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63

Picking up on points made above (sorry, I’m not as clever as you lot and don’t know how to insert multiple quotes)

Early warning of camps: With regards to RIAT - surely this is a LONG TERM arrangement - so why AREN’T dates standardised…? Short of going to war, I would have thought that the RAF already have the dates for the next five years at least… not least beicse it’s always the same weekend!

The same thing with other routine camps and activities… take the guesswork out and make life easier for your CFAVs and give them a chance to plan their lives outside of RAFAC - this isn’t rocket science.

Seasonal camps at air stations will presumably be subject to operational demands, availability, support and co-operation from each station - which may not be known in advance - or may not be reliable…

Flying…

Mid week flying slots - realistically, the only people I can see taking up such slots will be either sixth formers, the home schooled or CCF cadets with “amenable” staff - or pupils during school holidays.

The entire USP of RAFAC is to get cadets in the air… why on earth is HQAC / 22 Group seemingly going out of their way to prevent this…

If you have to restrict access to AEF to weekends and school holidays, you NEED to maximise the availability of resources - and thanks to the lack of access internally - the only option is to outsource it.

Instead of being control freaks and saying NO, let’s look at ways to be able to say YES and find solutions.

This isn’t rocket science - get more kids in the air more often…

Make volunteering easier (and more enjoyable) for your CFAVs or expect to lose both.

Instead of fudging your answer of “we’re not happy with the level of risk that ACF are prepared to accept”, how about give an honest explanation of WHY - what is so wrong…?

Better yet - publish the minimum terms of safe operation you will accept.

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