Can anyone point me to regs for staffing rations on a normal Sqn night at the Sqn?
Cheers
1 Like
3 Likes
Quick question - where do I find the policy defence for supervision ratios on a parade night (classroom training)
Had a new member of staff join & taking them through things explained the supervision ratio of 1:10 and their question was “where’s that written down as I can’t find it” & when I’ve gone to look I can either.
I can find where it say the ratio must be correct but not an actual number.
Anyone able to point me in the right direction.
JSP 814 gives an overview of ratios.
2 Likes
1 Like
Weird that it specifies 1:10 for “external activities” 
implying that’s it not 1:10 for parade nights
Quite right not to duplicate information that’s already in the JSP. There should be a single version of the truth and duplication introduces a risk of one being changed and not the other.
We operate 1:10 off unit, 1:30 on unit. Granted CCF’s run on school rules for a parade night, but I haven’t seen anything written that stated 1:10 on a parade night either.
If it were 1:10 our parades simply wouldn’t happen - I have 200+ Cadets across both sections!
1 Like
Thankyou for the reference.
I picked up on the “external activities” phrase as well so followed the source as it made reference to NSPCC guidelines .
That was a little woolly & went from guidelines to best practice for those not in education sector.
Following the NSPCC guidance for schools takes you the NEU website & class sizes which then follows
-
It’s down to individual premise risk assessment so we should be including it in our accommodation & surrounds RA.
-
1:30 is general classroom
-
1:20 is practical training
-
1:15 is for groups needing to be small
So learning for me is -
-
I now need to state it specifically in our building RA (& this will vary from Sqn to Sqn)
-
need to use common sense more like HQ are by not specifically stating a ratio & assess on our individual circumstances
Considering AT off Sqn is 1:10 & that is more uncontrolled & hazardous than standard parade night training, a standing ratio of 1:12 depending on the age make up of the Sqn.
So perhaps one additional adult plus 1:10 for under 16, 1:12 for 16-18.
Normally I’d agree, but In this case the JSP is not giving a definitive answer. It’s giving a recommended maximum. Multiple times it says individual CF need their own policy on this.
In that case, yes, the ACPs should detail RAFAC’s own policy. If they refer to the ratios in the JSP, it should be as a reference rather than duplicating them.
Good rule of thumb. Under 1:20 would make it very difficult for many units.
1 Like
@moderators can we get this moved to the thread I linked above, just so if people search they can see all the replies here!
I am intrigued here, as I have always gone as 1:10 being an absolute maximum for any activity, parade night etc. But it is intriguing that, as @Jimothy notes, it specifies that for external activities.
I am now hunting through bader to see if we do actually have a reference somewhere for this.
ACTO 10 has this:
But given it’s talking about events being self-approved on SMS, that wouldn’t apply to a normal parade night?? But certainly references that 1:10.
2 Likes
I’ve been told 1:10 for parade night by wing. Can’t achieve 1:10? Stand down.
I think it’s rather conservative but I’d
also not want ro exceed 1:15. And 3 staff has to be the minimum.
Likewise.
Interestingly, ACP 4 now says this:
- RAFAC seeks to keep cadets and its people safe by:
- …
- Having clear guidelines regarding the usage of online and social media, correct supervisory ratios, understanding what constitutes ‘positions of authority and trust (POAT)’3 and safe travel procedures.
It mentions “correct supervisory ratios” but doesn’t say what they are.
It later says this:
This refers to the SDC which is a term used in the old version of ACP 4. Looking in said old version brings up this:
Which is pretty clear that 1:10 is for everything, not just external activities. But, this has been removed from the current version and replaced with that list that is under review.
Considering the CFAV shortage it might have been HQAC quietly deciding that a more flexible approach might be the way forward to avoid too many units closing / permanent stand down.
It also pushes the onus down on to the OC to ensure they have the right ratio for the activity they are doing at the squadron rather than a tick box 1:10.
My initial intention was post on the corresponding thread but I couldn’t find it when searching so it may need a tweak on name.
I work in a school and 1 to 30ish is a normal ratio for a classroom. Sometimes in the past the school has increased this slightly larger for top tier children and had class sizes of 32 or 33.
The teaching union gives a limit of 1 in 30 but there appears to be no set limit set in law for children of Air cadet age. The NSPCC advises of a set limit of 1 to 10 for all activities for cadet age children. for younger children the the NSPCC says 1 to 6, the law says classes for 5 to 7 years olds the max class size is 1 to 30. Teaching unions say classis should be smaller but still in the 20s, not what the NSPCC advises.
I have always worked on a parade night radio of 1 to 10 at the unit but had individual activities being lead by a CFAV with more than 10 cadets and other staff on call doing admin etc.
I can see the ratios being closer to the NSPCC model than the school model. The rub is going to come with the CCF. They work on the school model and and do not have the CFAVs to offer a 1 to 10 radio. Also, safeguarding is a school issue and not a RAFAC one, The ratios would probably not be enforceable on a school.
Hopefully we will get proper guidance going forward on ratios. Not having any guidance for 18 months on ratios for the CFAV puts the RAFAC and the RAF at great reputational risk and is a very poor state of affairs and leaves the CFAV vulnerable. Regarding all of the different types of activities and what levels of supervision is needed. Also, what is regarded as on and off duty, what is over night supervision is this a sleeping duty in the accommodation is or is a waking duty needed?
Nor will many generally, I’d guess.
I’d say a 1:10 ratio for basic parade night stuff indoors would make it incredibly difficult for most units to function reliably.
Considering we do a lot of highly routined and regimented stuff with young adults who are there by choice and have more senior cadets often leading the most routine activities, I think we should be able to stretch closer to the school ratio (especially if it’s not a legal requirement to keep it lower).
I’ve also had this.
Either we’re in the same Wing, or this is doing the rounds at the moment.
I’m 99% sure it’s compulsory for us. I’ve heard the same thing about not running above 1:10, and if we can’t staff it, we stand-down for the night.
On a previous unit, we stood down a lot for this.