Over never been on a Camp where a Commissioned Officer has been marching Cadets around, even if there was a need to go with them the Cadet NCO’s would do that and the Staff would follow on.
We never did that on any of the occasions I was at ATF. We either bumbled in pairs or drive depending on what accommodation we were in.
Here we go with the ‘it’s not a written regulation so we don’t do it’ stuff.
When I was first commissioned, saluting a fellow officer when visiting their office absolutely was briefed at IOT, usually as part of the customs and etiquette package. It goes back to an understanding of what saluting means and in this case, it’s as a greeting, not as a recognition of rank or status. True, nothing was ever formally written down, it was a ‘it’s something that we just do’ thing. During my career, as a jnr off, I recall OC Eng Wg and Sqn Ldrs saluting me (and others of course) when visiting. I still do it now. And @daws1159, I’m pretty sure I know your current Wg, and it certainly has been done there.
It’s never been a Regional thing as it was taken for granted that we all did it, regulars and VR(T). The history of saluting seems to have been forgotten and all we have left is the deference to rank element. Possibly a sign of the diminishing numbers of ex regular officers coming across since the 70s/80s and the quirky unwritten bits becoming diluted as a result. It’s still a bit sad that in these days of bureaucracy and regulations, we’re losing the little oddities, especially as the membership of this organisation has a penchant for making ‘rules‘ up!
Ditto this.
Definitely a thing, doesn’t need to be formalised for it to exist.
Kind of, at the very least it does for you to ever instruct someone else to do it.
If it’s a squadron habit for the lowest ranking staff member to be bought a packet of Hobnobs every fourth parade night by the OC as a sign of respect, that’s fine. That doesn’t make it a rule though.
Interesting googling it, AP818 says you don’t, ACP19 says you do, etc etc etc. Either way it’s at the niche end of nicheness. For a four hours a week kids club if that’s all that is causing grief, that’s probably a pretty immaculately ran unit!
Only ever seen it happen once, many , many, many years ago.
I was a CI and our new sector commander saluted the office when he first arrived. I was in there on my own though and was fairly new at the time so was a little confused as to what was going on.
Never seen it since. I was never “in” so may not be as au fait with quirky RAF traditions as others, and it was never taught nor told to me to do on any RAFAC course, so as I merrily buzz around the wing I have never done it.
No one has ever mentioned it to me…
Have seen it regularly - think some of this is left over from old army traditions from the Roual Flying Corps.
It was certainly mentioned on my IOC course along with saluting passing hearses (only if coffin present), the cenotaph in London and the rather odd one of “saluting a fellow officer escorting a lady”
Ray Pelcot did raise a wry smile when he told us all that one.
And that’s the point. We’re losing stuff that should be passed down the ‘officers’ club’ route (I know WOs had a similar thing) because nobody has been bothered.
I refer to my earlier post; reasons why saluting is done:
As a greeting, originally between warriors, to show you were unarmed and not a threat.
As a show of respect to those of higher rank or status - think about the old practice of tugging the forelock.
As a mark of respect for something/someone - gentlemen would raise their hat to a lady, funeral cortège etc.
All this was briefed as @Chief_Tech mentioned, but not written down. Shame really
For those questioning the need to salute the OC of a unit regardless of rank, I can tell you that it was a regulation that was contained within AP1919 (the old “Rules and Regulations of the Air Training Corps”), until after at least 2007, but was dropped from any subsequent publications.
This I disagree with.
Appointment of time served Flt Lts is now a thing of the past.
Now, Flt Lt rank is awarded to those that choose to take on additional responsibility (OC of a unit, WSO etc).
Even Fg Off should require further effort to advance from Plt Off.
Are you thinking of the acting vs substantive rank? In which case everyone from Fg Off to Wing Comander is the same substantive rank.
Edited to appease Batfink! 
Oiii!! Don’t consign me to history just yet! There’s a few of us still loitering 
I was referring to the wider RAF, I did make that point in the rest of the post 
Given that’s what most of our customs and practices will be based on, that made sense to talk about. The rule set will be based around the fact the regular ranks fall out of a cereal box until you break from junior to senior officers.
So you did!
And having reread it, you make a very good point!
Erm, no, they are still senior in rank, and should be referred to as Sir, Ma’am from a junior to a senior, they are just not saluted by other junior officers. In the same way a Sgt would refer to a FS as FS. Not sure where you get a Plt Off calling a Flt Lt as “mate” from. It may happen, but it’s certainly not within service etiquette.
Group Captain now!
It’s down to respect and reading the room. When a MIOT course graduates you have a pool of Flying Officer pilots and Engineering Officers, and then everyone as Pilot Officers. They’ve spent the last 6 months as the same rank, they won’t start clicking to attention and calling each other sir or ma’am the day after they graduate. There’s nothing to respect there, it’s just paperwork.
But it can go the other way. Flt Lt on a training squadron being taught to fly by another Flt Lt. Same rank. One’s got wings and is a QFI, they’ll be called Sir/Ma’am.
As I said before, RAFAC is an outlier because you don’t just get handed Flt Lt at entry date + X years, generally speaking. The guidelines therefore are a bit square peg round hole.
But just common sense. Are there cadets around? If no then forget about it except for the most formal of reasons anyway. If they are then you aren’t going to call them by their first names, in the same way you wouldn’t a CI or any other member of staff, or cadet. Just use their rank or Sir/Ma’am as appropriate.
But that’s just it, you actually can! I don’t know where this idea of Plt Offs and Fg Offs and even Flt Lts calling Flt Lts sir comes from. Ok, if you’re flying, the instructor is the aircraft captain and I get it for that reason, but after the sortie is over? Really? As a ground branch officer, all our instructors were known by their first names.
I see it all the time in this organisation, and people usually use the reason that in front of the cadets, jnr offs call other jnr offs sir; it’s wrong. Call them by their rank if you must, but Mr, Miss or Mrs or whatever is preferred, but first names is also ok. I’ll not pretend to know about parades and stuff, so that might be a specific situation for using honorifics, but all other times, no. I’ve even known newly commissioned plt offs (ex CWOs) calling Flt Lts sir in the staff office!
And we get back to the same point; what are people being formally taught or advised by the ‘Corps elders’?
I think you’ve misunderstood me ever so slightly, I completely agree with you! It’s just the time when you’re in front of cadets. CI calling over to another CI but in front of cadets, there’s still a little bit of ‘erm… Mr X?’ It’s no different to that. Using the actual rank seems easiest.
Couple more things that spring to my mind
When I was a cadet it was usual for commissioned officers to refer to and address Warrant Officers as ‘Mr Bloggs’ or ‘Ms Bloggs’. Whilst ORs used ‘Warrant Officer Bloggs’. That seems to have gone out of fashion now and it’s the latter for everyone.
It’s an annoyance ro me when cadets and sometimes staff say ‘Go ask Ma’am/ Sir’, or worse ‘Go ask Ma’am/ Sir Bloggs’, or worse still ‘Ma’am / Sir says……’ I pick up people that do this and ask them to use my rank and name. Where did that come from?
Going back a bit, strikes me as bizarre the SCC don’t have ranks above PO. The CCF(RN) were the same until about ?5 years ago but now use the regular RN ranks and cap badge. This caused me no end of rank equivalency problems - especially with the Head of Corps (senior cadet) position, as this is normally a WO1/CWO role. I had some excellent RN section cadets in that role.