There are more than a few who would say yes…
No.
But there are a few who seriously believe that being a C2 is the same as a Major or Sqn Ldr!
2 Likes
The only time I pulled the B2/Group Captain/Colonel card was when I was having a disagreement with an Army Legal Service Major over immigration status of Commonwealth nationals leaving the service. When I played that card they reluctantly agreed to use my argument (being the lead government lawyer in that area didn’t work but rank equivalence did 
). Luckily the Court of Appeal agreed with me.
Ordinarily I’d never genuinely use the comparison.
2 Likes
“Don’t confuse your grade with my rank” works well
Or even more hostile “check your payslip and see whose time the queen* values more”
3 Likes
Bit harsh.
But that is perpetuated by the MoD CS when they equate a EO (Band D) to a Flt Lt as first step on management ladder; thus C2 (HEO) equates to a Sqn Ldr Also not help in RAFAC when HQAC give positions at HEO and say individuals can wear uniform of Sqn Ldr rank 
To be fair, that’s internal politics between permanent staff as I’ve known some regulars act that is your are not in uniform or don’t have a rank you’re not important.
If its a bit of smoke & mirrors to makes things easier to navigate the Byzantium workings of Whitehall then that’s fine.
1 Like
Unfortunately, juniors have to deal with those high and mighty E2s. Especially at Odiham.
They’ve all been there years and absolutely buy in to the idea that they are equivalent to officers.
I’ve had to go back to seniors to get them to argue my point.
Obviously not all civil servants are like this, but the Odiham enablers definitely are.
I think I know the type 
it’s more of the fact they are the king of their domain, don’t want to change and have seen so many people come & go over the years that they are able to type cast all the customers - think similar to a primary school teacher who hasn’t gone into the management side but just taught for three decades.
I don’t think it’s the case that they think they are officers, more that define themselves as definitely not officers and as such different rules apply.
I wonder if the Sea cadets have similar as they are managed by the MSSC charity & will have a lot more civvy staff.
So I’m curious about this.
Newly commissioned, I saluted my then OC who I think was a Flt Lt by then but could have been a Fg Off. They told me thank you but junior Officers don’t salute each other ( up to Flt Lt/Captain). So a Fg Off wouldn’t salute a Flt Lt and a a Plt Off wouldn’t salute either but all would salute a Sqn Ldr or Major.
This surprised me as I had always been taught to pay compliments above. Whether I actually do depends on the context. I seem to remember as a cadet being taught that outside of parades, you salute the first time you see an Officer and the last time (if known), when entering/leaving a room or a sit up when the Officer enters/leaves the room but I don’t always follow that on a normal parade night. I will always go with Sir/Ma’am.
My new OC is sure that we have to salute anyone above our own rank. So I’d have to salute them as a Flt Lt. Others in our Sqn aren’t sure.
Who is right and where does this actually come from? I have no problem saluting so I’m not trying to get out of it, I just want to make sure I’m getting it right.
Saying that, I do get frustrated when I/others don’t get saluted by cadets or on camp aviators, not because of any power trip but because it is respecting the rank/commission. I’ll mention it to cadets but I wouldn’t to aviators but I know some who would and do but they have greater rank.
Also, I’ve come across quite a few people who on returning the salute do a almost mini salute, where their hand doesn’t come all the way up. I can’t describe it but is this a thing or just lazy?
Curious for your thoughts on a related topic, calling a lower rank than you Sir/Ma’am. E.g. a Flt Lt calling a Fg Off Sir. It seems to jar a bit to me when I hear people do it, because for me that is still part of paying the compliment.
Edit: to add, re CS, we used to get blanket emails to the whole Wing from our OC Wing complaining that people didn’t call the WExO Sir. Should we?
Sorry long, rambling slightly contradictory, post!
Junior officers don’t salute each other.
Plt Off to Flt Lt is time served, you don’t have to do anything to earn it, they’re the same rank in all but appearance. The promotion is just a paper exercise.
In the RAFAC bubble it’s the only time where you might actually get Flt Lt through a role, doesn’t change the fact it’s a junior rank though. You’d refer to them as ‘mate’, or ‘-name-’ or, if in front of cadets, perhaps ‘Flt Lt X’ if you felt so inclined.
Whole thing can get a little bit silly, a RAFAC rank is never more than something to wear for the kids to salute at. The moment staff start saluting each other behind closed doors when there’s no cadets about, or getting upset it about it, it all gets a little bit weird!
Pretty amazed by some of the responses, have we actually got RAFAC CFCs who put in 4 hours a week at a kids club pulling rank on full time civil servants in actual substantive roles 
2 Likes
CS are crown servants.
But not military.
The grade comparision chart, exists only to give your average private or airman a simple clue aa to where a D band vs an SCS 1 sits…
Its not for playing big billy balls by the CS or indeed for use by regulars to pick fights with the CS.
As for the lack of basic military knowledge some are displaying on here, its pretty bad.
There is a clear need for extra training of how the MOD and RAF works.
Reccomend anyone with doubts reads a few APs, ACPs and alike. Invest the time to better understand the org in which you volunteer.
3 Likes
This is correct in general but there’s some exceptions as I understand things. First off an officer will salute when visiting another officer in their office for the first time, regardless of relative rank; so a Flt Lt would salute a Pilot Officer when introducing herself at their office door.
Second, a officer will always salute a more senior Junior Officer on parade.
Third if a junior officer is commanding a squad of cadets or non commissioned CFAVs they will salute more senior Junior Officers they encounter on the march and gives eyes left or right to the squad.
1 Like
This isn’t a real thing, it’s one of those strange habits that has crept in.
In what world would this happen? Outside of a formal parade when you most certainly wouldn’t be eyes lefting and righting at random officers not standing on a special box for the purpose?
2 Likes
Your first point is wrong. It is absolutely a real thing. My wing commander (and 2ro) would salute me (a fg off) when entering my office. It’s good manners, especially if you’re visiting another Sqn. The ACF officer we share our building with does the same when visiting us
3 Likes
What Daws is saying is that it is a custom in some places, rather than being a requirement.
4 Likes
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but nowhere is it written that it’s supposed to and it’s very regional, certainly hasn’t happened in any of the 3 Wings I’ve been in.
2 Likes
RAF you wouldn’t wear headdress indoors, so these situations don’t really arise anyway. But just scale it up.
Would a Station Commander salute Fg Off X, in SHQ, when stopping by grab something out of their printer? Nope, I suspect quite the opposite and said Fg Off would leap out of their chair as a sign of respect.
There’s no harm in it I guess, but just expect some odd looks if you’re ever at a camp somewhere with a higher concentration of rank if you start doing it.
1 Like
You’ve never been on a summer camp clearly 
Cadets move s a squad all the time with a CFAV in command of said squad. RAF College, Regulars, Reserves and CFAVs on their initial training all move as a squad.
1 Like
I was told, and what happens here, is it’s just for the first meeting, so like if you were visiting a squadron for the first time you would visit the squadron office, with your hat on, if a commissioned officer of any rank was on you would salute and introduce yourself like “Good evening, I am Flight Lt Squadgy” and the Officer would say “Good evening, I’m Pilot Officer Bloggs, good to meet you Ma’am” (no return salute as Bloggs wouldn’t be wearing headdress). After that no more saluting and no hats indoors.