QUAIC - what do I get out of it?

Adult Staff Execs
21

I’m with GHE2 on this one.

If the squadron is subsidising the course, then why shouldn’t there be an expectation that the candidate will use the skills they learn to benefit the squadron? After all, they are taking money away from the other cadets (metaphorically speaking) to go and do that course.

As for what you get, we have a QAIC on squadron, and he taught Air Power to an average level and spent weekends away at the RAC as a staff cadet, so frequently wasn’t available for squadron activities.

On the plus side, when we had a squadron RAC camp, he was invaluable in helping to plan the weekend and running the activities due to knowledge of the equipment and activities on offer.

Think of them like Gliding Staff Cadets, with the only difference being that the QAIC get the flying suit to ponce about on the ground in front of computers, whereas the gliding cadets get to wear it to actually fly :wink:

22

Considering its the Qualified Aerospace Instructors course… be a little pointless doing it if they didn’t, well instruct…

23

Excellent point, would you expect JLs to do likewise?

24

Excellent point, would you expect JLs to do likewise?[/quote]

Having some knowledge of this course, they aren’t trained specifically to benefit ‘A’ squadron. Moreso benefit the organisation where they can teach at the RACs. This means the first poster’s question is, “no, probably nothing for your squadron unless you go to the RACs”.

25

So any learning they undergo around pilot skills for instance, or ATC, or RADAR, or general airmanship et al cannot be applied at the squadron to be benefit their peers? I’ve got cadets who have only ever done the syllabus subjects and they have and continue to instruct cadets in some quite technical areas, just I and my mates did years ago and successive and previous generations have, and cadets instructed pass the exams. All of this without extra tuition via major courses.

I can understand why the CoC want cadets trained up to do things at the RACs as they would lie dormant and not be a smart investment. Also, they would, no doubt be able to work better with the right kit as any tradesman/woman, but if then as you suggest the QUAIC is only to prepare them for life instructing at a RAC is a somewhat narrow-minded and myopic perspective within the CoC, especially if as suggested they are likely to stay beyond 20 and become staff. I can’t imagine the DS on the QUAIC have this view and I certainly wouldn’t be impressed if a member of staff with that knowledge wasn’t prepared to share.

26

Would you help fund JL, or ACLC if requested. I would.

Would you expect someone on JL or ACLC to come back and be responsible for teaching others FMST? No (well I hope not!).

The same applies to QAIC in my eyes. Whilst it would be nice if they could then run a sqn flight sim (if you have one), and they might be able to help out with Air Power and POF, I wouldn’t expect them to come back as fountains of knowledge and wouldn’t expect them to be responsible for teaching such things.

At the end of the day the ATC is their hobby. They might put something back in to it, but there’s no requirement for them to do so. We are here to provide opportunities for cadets of any age to develop themselves, not to train them up to do staff jobs for us.

Yet again I’m seeing the same old negative posters on here moaning about x, y, and z. Rather than going to look at the course, talking with people who have done it or even doing some research, they continue to slate anyone wanting to get on a highly competetive and rewarding course and those connected with it because it might not personally provide them with anything tangible.

Well guess what, we’re not here primarily for you guys, we’re here for the cadets. That occasionally means putting up with things you don’t personally agree with in order that you can serve the cadets as best you can. The attitude of many is selfish, egotistical and frankly one I wouldn’t want if I were in charge of recruiting staff for any organisation, let alone one whose primary aims are to develop young people.

EDIT: Oh and no, I’m not staff on the course. I’ve never sent a cadet on the course because we’ve never had one interested, and I don’t know anyone on it before you comment :wink:

27

I’m sorry but now I am at a loss as to how on earth some squadrons actually run. I get the impression that there are squadrons with oodles of staff every parade night doing absolutely everything, while the cadets are practically waited on hand and foot and don’t need to lift a finger. To even get this impression shocks me as it is about as far as you can get from my experience and sets an extremely poor example.

Back in the day if I hadn’t started teaching/instructing as a 17/18 year old and then moved on to do other things on the sqn before ageing out at 22, I wouldn’t have stayed as I would have been bored to tears. Even now I spend as much time out of the office doing things on parade nights, because that’s what I like to do and not just be a bloke that comes out for final parade every night.

I feel this goes a long way to hitting the nail on the head wrt to the sentiment of some comments posted here. There is no such thing as a free lunch. I think we are here to deliver life lessons as well as anything else … training useful in civilian and service life.

It is a hobby, but surely you can’t just expect to get, get, get without putting and wanting to put something back? Maybe I was brought up differently with different values.

I don’t personally get anything out of the cadets who do courses, but I would like to think that their peers would benefit from their knowledge and this would effectively mean instucting. If as a CO you’re happy for cadets to do things and not relay their experience to cadets on their sqn and maybe enthuse/encourage them and also show what the Corps offers, so be it.

28

[quote=“pEp” post=9526]Would you help fund JL, or ACLC if requested. I would.

Would you expect someone on JL or ACLC to come back and be responsible for teaching others FMST? No (well I hope not!).
[/quote]

Actually, yes I would. Having gone through the course, they would arguably be the most qualified person to teach fieldcraft, therefore to not utilise those skills would then seem to be a waste of 7 months hard work - until such time as they go and join the infantry.

29

To the best of my knowledge, QAIC exists to teach senior cadets how to lead and instruct. If a QAIC graduate chooses to do neither, then s/he is little more than a badge-collecting oxygen thief and a waste of a place on the course.

30

The objectives of the course are defined as follows:

[i][b][i]“To deliver an aerospace course to senior cadets of the ACO that combines academic and synthetic training in aerospace based subjects combined with personal development training.

The course aims to produce qualified individuals who are competent to instruct in squadron, activity centre and ACE Platform environments and who can actively contribute towards aerospace development within the ACO”[/i][/b][/i]

I hope that helps to answer the question.

31

Well now, should I have my two’pennuth in this ‘discussion’? After all I am just a CI albeit an ex Cadet, oh! and a retired RAF pilot with 37 years service on aircraft as diverse as the Vulcan, Phantom and Hawk.
So, let me tell you what you get out of QAIC - you get a cadet who has had to work harder than they ever imagined, work a long way outside their comfort zone and have to understand subjects that many (if not all of their piers) haven’t a clue about. Their subjects include everything already mentioned and, on the face of it, it is all easy-peasy stuff. I can, and do, challenge you to try what these youngsters go through to achieve their coveted ‘Blue lanyard’. But that still hasn’t told you what YOU get. QAIC takes an ordinary cadet, albeit with aspirations, and develops confidence and knowledge that you as a Sqn Cdr can use on your Sqn; your newly qualified QAI has the knowledge and has demonstrated the ability to run at a RAC - the Wind Tunnel (and prove some of that PofF ‘stuff’, set-up and use the Flight Sim, the ATC sim at the Sqn teach PofF, Pilot Nav. But more than that, your cadet has qualified for his/her MOI, has given a presentation on an Air Power theme to a room full of fellow students and staff, Regional Commandants and for the lucky (sic) top syndicates the Commandant and invited Air Officer(s). That the most recent Air Officer was totally bowled over by the extraordinary quality of presentations (he was the lead engineer in the both fields of one particular syndicates presentation!) gave his admiration added credibility.
Reflect then, if you will, on just who gets what out of this. Your cadet has gone through the mill - particularly challenging if he/she is doing A-levels etc! - your cadet will have come out the other side with much they have benefitted from and much you can benefit from. QAIC requires dedicated staff, is has status with The Royal Aeronautical Society, a prize is Sponsored by The Honourable Company of Air Pilots (previously known as GAPAN), British Aerospace and others. Negativity towards this course has no place and, on the contrary, you should be embracing something that puts some light blue back into the ACO.
Now you might ask … what the heck does an ex-RAF pilot know about all this - well I’ll let you hazard a guess!!!

32

I’m assuming this rant is in response to something on here?

33

[quote=“878jetjock” post=17644]Well now, should I have my two’pennuth in this ‘discussion’? After all I am just a CI albeit an ex Cadet, oh! and a retired RAF pilot with 37 years service on aircraft as diverse as the Vulcan, Phantom and Hawk.
So, let me tell you what you get out of QAIC - you get a cadet who has had to work harder than they ever imagined, work a long way outside their comfort zone and have to understand subjects that many (if not all of their piers) haven’t a clue about. Their subjects include everything already mentioned and, on the face of it, it is all easy-peasy stuff. I can, and do, challenge you to try what these youngsters go through to achieve their coveted ‘Blue lanyard’. But that still hasn’t told you what YOU get. QAIC takes an ordinary cadet, albeit with aspirations, and develops confidence and knowledge that you as a Sqn Cdr can use on your Sqn; your newly qualified QAI has the knowledge and has demonstrated the ability to run at a RAC - the Wind Tunnel (and prove some of that PofF ‘stuff’, set-up and use the Flight Sim, the ATC sim at the Sqn teach PofF, Pilot Nav. But more than that, your cadet has qualified for his/her MOI, has given a presentation on an Air Power theme to a room full of fellow students and staff, Regional Commandants and for the lucky (sic) top syndicates the Commandant and invited Air Officer(s). That the most recent Air Officer was totally bowled over by the extraordinary quality of presentations (he was the lead engineer in the both fields of one particular syndicates presentation!) gave his admiration added credibility.
Reflect then, if you will, on just who gets what out of this. Your cadet has gone through the mill - particularly challenging if he/she is doing A-levels etc! - your cadet will have come out the other side with much they have benefitted from and much you can benefit from. QAIC requires dedicated staff, is has status with The Royal Aeronautical Society, a prize is Sponsored by The Honourable Company of Air Pilots (previously known as GAPAN), British Aerospace and others. Negativity towards this course has no place and, on the contrary, you should be embracing something that puts some light blue back into the ACO.
Now you might ask … what the heck does an ex-RAF pilot know about all this - well I’ll let you hazard a guess!!![/quote]
Well, as you’ve put yourself on offer…

Firstly, I don’t think many on here are ‘dissing’ the QAIC course per se but are wondering what they as Sqns and the Corps, actually DO get from the cadets who’ve completed the course.

For example, in my humble experience, the slack handful of QAIC’s who I’ve seen return with lovely blue lanyards, haven’t done a great deal but swan around in grow-bags. I’ve yet to see them put something back into the very organization that offered them the opportunity in the first place. StevenHawkingsTennisRacquet and I don’t always see eye-to-eye but his post on the previous page (Jul 13) is spot-on as I’ve yet to see anything that will change my mind.

Some QAI’s (but I’m sure not all) appear to feel that they’ve reached the pinnacle of blue training so now is the time to sit back and stroke their own egos. A little like some (if not most) JL’s I’ve met.

Secondly, as an ex-member of the two-winged master race, no doubt educated to at least A Level standard, your English is a bit ropey. You need to work on your spelling, punctuation and layout.

Why not get yourself on a QAIC course? :evil:

34

:popcorn:

35

[quote=“878jetjock” post=17644]Well now, should I have my two’pennuth in this ‘discussion’? After all I am just a CI albeit an ex Cadet, oh! and a retired RAF pilot with 37 years service on aircraft as diverse as the Vulcan, Phantom and Hawk.
So, let me tell you what you get out of QAIC - you get a cadet who has had to work harder than they ever imagined, work a long way outside their comfort zone and have to understand subjects that many (if not all of their piers) haven’t a clue about. Their subjects include everything already mentioned and, on the face of it, it is all easy-peasy stuff. I can, and do, challenge you to try what these youngsters go through to achieve their coveted ‘Blue lanyard’. But that still hasn’t told you what YOU get. QAIC takes an ordinary cadet, albeit with aspirations, and develops confidence and knowledge that you as a Sqn Cdr can use on your Sqn; your newly qualified QAI has the knowledge and has demonstrated the ability to run at a RAC - the Wind Tunnel (and prove some of that PofF ‘stuff’, set-up and use the Flight Sim, the ATC sim at the Sqn teach PofF, Pilot Nav. But more than that, your cadet has qualified for his/her MOI, has given a presentation on an Air Power theme to a room full of fellow students and staff, Regional Commandants and for the lucky (sic) top syndicates the Commandant and invited Air Officer(s). That the most recent Air Officer was totally bowled over by the extraordinary quality of presentations (he was the lead engineer in the both fields of one particular syndicates presentation!) gave his admiration added credibility.
Reflect then, if you will, on just who gets what out of this. Your cadet has gone through the mill - particularly challenging if he/she is doing A-levels etc! - your cadet will have come out the other side with much they have benefitted from and much you can benefit from. QAIC requires dedicated staff, is has status with The Royal Aeronautical Society, a prize is Sponsored by The Honourable Company of Air Pilots (previously known as GAPAN), British Aerospace and others. Negativity towards this course has no place and, on the contrary, you should be embracing something that puts some light blue back into the ACO.
Now you might ask … what the heck does an ex-RAF pilot know about all this - well I’ll let you hazard a guess!!![/quote]

You are ex-RC(N) AICMFP

36

[quote=“Plt Off Prune” post=17651]You are ex-RC(N) AICMFP[/quote]Which one? I thought the previous incumbent was merely FJ ballast…

37

At the risk of putting my neck on the line here I’m a recent graduate of the Qualified Aerospace Instructors Course so I thought I’d share my views.

This course is without a doubt the best thing I’ve ever done with the corps. Before attending the course I thought I was a fairly competent and effective NCO but over the 8 months of the course I feel that I’ve developed into a far more knowledgeable and rounded cadet. Much like the cadre of QJLs you’re going to come across some QAIs who think rather highly of themselves and that they’re above everyone else but of the students on my course I can’t think of any that this would apply to. The graduates of these courses are rightly proud of their achievements and unfortunately this may come across as arrogance to some but unless you’ve actually completed the course you aren’t really in a position to understand.

However I deviate from the point of this thread, what does a squadron commander get out of a QAI? Simply put a highly trained and knowledgeable individual capable of teaching a wide variety of aerospace related topics to a high level. The training we receive on the course is second to none in the ACO, the staff are all experts in their respective fields indeed listening to some you wouldn’t be surprised to learn they’d learned to fly on the Wright Flyer! Their experience and knowledge is passed on to the QAIs who are then expected to cascade it down to Wing and Squadron level, be that through standard lectures or aerospace camps, and encourage aerospace at a grass roots level. At the start of the course we are clearly told what is expected of us as graduates but like any group of people there are going to be those who are more proactive than others, how many CWOs of questionable use do you know? Although we are provided with the skills we need to do this the support isn’t always there, for whatever reason there seems to be something of a prejudice against selective courses like QAIC and JL which can make it challenging to get support from staff, especially those who don’t know a QAI or QJL personally or have had bad experiences in the past.

In addition to being an educational asset to any squadron a QAI can also be useful for recruitment. As tmmorris puts it we get ‘a nice flying suit and badge to pounce around in’, although issued flying suits are to be returned at the end of the course, which can look rather interesting stood next to a recruitment stand. The majority of cadets join the ACO because of the ‘air’ connotations and seeing a chap in a flying suit is going to attract people to take a closer look, which may have something to do with why we’re expected to help on the ACE platforms in addition to our instructional duties.

The pressures put on a QAI(T) during the course are enormous, in addition to the weekends and assessment/grad week we’re also expected to put in a considerable amount of work at home. On top of school work, especially A levels, this can prove challenging, I for one struggled considerably, but the benefits are many and myriad. As 878jetjock says we are expected to give a 40 minute presentation on challenging topics to very senior officers, how many cadets and indeed staff do you know who have presented to a two star officer?

Should a QAI place in the top 3 at either centre he/she will be asked to sit on the committee of their local RAeS branch as a ‘Youth Ambassador’ encouraging connections between the RAeS and the youth. I’d hope that any squadron commander can see the benefit of having close ties with the RAeS in addition to the personal benefit to the QAI. The graduation dinner is also an incredible opportunity for the graduates to network and develop contacts that may be useful in the future, as well as getting selfie’s with the Commandant and AVM!

In short a QAI will be a massive asset but as anything only by correctly supporting them can a squadron commander expect to benefit from the QAI’s true potential and abilities. Unfortunately there will always be those lazy arrogant individuals who give the course a bad name but it is vital that the staff cadre as a whole understand what QAIC is and what being a QAI means and don’t judge the blue lanyard by some unworthy individuals who wear it.

Sorry for the long post but I thought it was necessary, if you have any questions about the course I’ll do my best to answer them. MRAR

38

You weren’t there, man! You can’t know! :wink:

It does sound to me like an interesting and useful course (so long as they now have their facts right - I believe early courses were a bit iffy) but I’m saddened to hear that is not managing to stifle the potential for arrogance amongst some of its graduates. The JL course used to be utterly infamous for producing throbbers and that was down to the attitude of the instructors and the ethos of the course itself breeding an air of superiority. I would hope that QAIC was far more grounded (ehem) and sensible in its approach but you will always get some who slip through the net :slight_smile:

AICs, like JLs, are a rare beast up here due to the prohibitive travel requirements so I’ve no first-hand experience of either.

39

As I say I think it’s very much a case of personal perception, some people may have a tainted view because of unfortunate experiences in the past, and I don’t recognise those arrogant traits in any of my fellow students. We are actively told to not be, excuse my French, an ■■■■ after we’ve graduated and the course staff go to great lengths to discourage us from falling into the same hole as those infamous QJLs.

40

[quote=“MRAR” post=17658]We are actively told to not be, excuse my French, an ■■■■ after we’ve graduated and the course staff go to great lengths to discourage us from falling into the same hole as those infamous QJLs.[/quote]Glad to hear it :smiley: