QUAIC - what do I get out of it?

Adult Staff Execs
1

I’ve just had a trawl for nominations for the latest QUAIC and I wondered what I as the CO of a sqn get out of it, especially if I was to ask the CWC to subsidise it, I am something of a Shylock when it comes to subsidising people for courses.

What are the experiences of those who have these on their sqns? I’ve asked locally and the general view was, and the 2 sqns with one said they don’t get as much as they expected as the cadets are of an age where studies tend to be the priority.

Is it a bit like JL for aeronuatics geeks?

2

Effectively yes, it’s a leadership course for people not liking fieldcraft.

You get someone able to use the RAC Flight Sim, someone to teach Air Power, someone that understands ATC/Radar, someone able to present and teach and someone developing themselves in an air-minded way.

If you have the funds, why WOULDN’T you subsidise it?

3

Why do you need to get something out of it? Surely you are giving someone the opportunity to develop some skills (which lets be honest, they do get training in all sorts of areas ref delivering high quality instruction) which could be useful in service or civilian life.

4

[quote=“pEp” post=9398]Effectively yes, it’s a leadership course for people not liking fieldcraft.

You get someone able to use the RAC Flight Sim, someone to teach Air Power, someone that understands ATC/Radar, someone able to present and teach and someone developing themselves in an air-minded way.

If you have the funds, why WOULDN’T you subsidise it?[/quote]
All the things you describe would be invaluable to me if it was staff, but limited wrt cadets, unless they were to effectively pledge to become staff.

As for the reluctance around subsidising I have requested and got subsidised or fully funded things for cadets and they’ve left after a year or so and I personally feel the squadron has been cheated. I do it because it’s part of the Corps’ mantra. But it’s like they’ve got something they want and despite all efforts have not repaid the “debt” to the squadron as without it they wouldn’t have had the opportunity. Most of the reason they don’t put it back into the sqn is in part due to their age when they do it.

5

As I say I expect the squadron to benefit from it, especially if they have had it funded in full or partially. Is that not what should happen? Maybe I have a different perspective on these things, ie personal integrity and service.

6

I don’t think cadets ‘owe’ anything to the Corps. The Corps exists to provide them with opportunities, etc.

It’s always annoyed me when you see senior or staff cadets getting cornered by someone demanding to know how they intend to ‘give something back’ to the ATC. You don’t expect kids to give something back to their school.

Although, in the interests of balance, there are some entitled little individuals around who could do with a good slap*.

*metaphorically, of course

7

[quote=“tango_lima” post=9409]I don’t think cadets ‘owe’ anything to the Corps. The Corps exists to provide them with opportunities, etc.

It’s always annoyed me when you see senior or staff cadets getting cornered by someone demanding to know how they intend to ‘give something back’ to the ATC. You don’t expect kids to give something back to their school.

Although, in the interests of balance, there are some entitled little individuals around who could do with a good slap*.

*metaphorically, of course[/quote]

^ What he said. The “thing” you are getting back you should have already got from the candidate at their stage of their cadet service (good attendance, input, support). It shouldn’t be used to bribe people to do this after their course but if you get something extra after then it’s a bonus. If they aren’t of a certain good quality before the course (bearing in mind their age/experience/skills at that point, possibly on a sliding scale based on the former) then don’t nominate them.

8

As staff we invest not inconsiderable time and effort (and money) into cadets and is it so wrong to expect them to repay that investment by ‘bringing on’ subsequent generations of cadets? This is broadly “giving something back”. When I say staff I include DS on the cadet courses, I can’t imagine for one minute they don’t expect the cadets to go back and not impart knowledege and give something back.
Don’t you have an expectation that your senior cadets and NCOs train cadets and take lessons? If not what on earth do they do on a parade night? When I reached 17/18 and well beyond as a cadet I was effectively teaching the old ACP31 as well as all the other thinsg a SNCO does, or should by my reckoning do.
If I’m investing sqn funds in someone, should there not be an expectation that they ‘reinvest’ that by passing on the knowledge/skills gained. When we do courses at work we are expected (as the days of two or more people all going have long gone) to pass what we have learned/skills gained on, as the company has invested money in us.

9

I completely agree with GHE 2. There is absolutely nothing wrong with expecting your cadets to use their new-found skills for the benefit of their peers. Why should the Corps continually ‘give’ with no expectation or intent, of getting anything back? It could be argued that one of our original aims was to prepare people for service in the RAF (or other service) and therefore the ‘payback’ was to the military. Moreover, I would consider the passing on of key skills gained on a major course by one of my more senior cadets very much part of their personal development and therefore almost an essential part of their training.

10

Amazing. Just amazing. :ohmy:

11

I am intrigued why you consider it ‘amazing’ that some would expect senior cadets to use their skills for the benefit of their friends or that it could also be part of the senior cadet’s personal development to do so!

Of course we have a duty to provide the training for our people, but we also have a duty to develop our cadets and that includes their altruistic skills in particular. I think it’s morally wrong to simply assume that everything we provide is a one-way street!

12

I am intrigued why you consider it ‘amazing’ that some would expect senior cadets to use their skills for the benefit of their friends or that it could also be part of the senior cadet’s personal development to do so!

Of course we have a duty to provide the training for our people, but we also have a duty to develop our cadets and that includes their altruistic skills in particular. I think it’s morally wrong to simply assume that everything we provide is a one-way street![/quote]

I consider it amazing that people think that we own cadets’ and that should they be unable to offer something back to us that we would not consider giving them assistance in life. This isn’t employment after all. We don’t hold bounties against them for training. Arguably it SHOULD be a one way street and IF we get something back then bonus all round. I wonder if our forefathers thought this way or if we have been tainted by corporate practises over the years?

13

Where do you get this notion that of a suggestion about “owning” cadets?

If you have cadets do a DI course, NCO course, FMS instructor, MOI, BELA, First Aid, Radio course etc etc, or, just be an experienced cadet, would you not have an expectation that they use their acquired skill, knowledge, experience at the sqn to encourage and develop the other cadets, ie give something back? Then be somewhat disappointed if they didn’t? We use our senior cadets as ‘mentors’ for new cadets and how they carry this out is one of the things used when looking at promotion candidates, which I imagine will be frowned upon.

As for our forefathers, yes, because unless my cadet squadron and those of my mates were anomalies, this sort of expectation “of putting back” into the Corps has been there for at least 35 years of my life, when I was considered experienced enough to start helping new cadets.

I’m not entirely convinced the idea of pushing it as a one way street is conducive with the idea of service to others, which is to my mind one of the things we should be promoting with cadets.

14

[quote=“Operation Nimrod” post=9425]
I consider it amazing that people think that we own cadets’ and that should they be unable to offer something back to us that we would not consider giving them assistance in life. This isn’t employment after all. We don’t hold bounties against them for training. Arguably it SHOULD be a one way street and IF we get something back then bonus all round. I wonder if our forefathers thought this way or if we have been tainted by corporate practises over the years?[/quote]

RTFP, what I said was SENIOR cadets using their skills to benefit their peers and the original post refers to the QAIC not an everyday, lower- level training opportunity. I did not say, nor I hope imply, anything about owning the cadets or holding bounties on them which are ridiculous notions.

If I recall, and I have not seen the form for several years as I have not put anyone up for the course recently, did the instructions for recommending someone for the JLs Course not come with an expectation or ideal that a cadet might remain for a certain time? If I am right, and I stand by to be corrected, why would that be?

As I said before, of course we should be giving the cadets training opportunities to benefit them in their future lives, military or otherwise, but we should also look to develop certain other qualities too. That’s why expecting some form of return from a major course such as the QAIC or JL is so important, not just for the rest of the Sqn, but the attendee themselves.

Far from being tainted by corporate practices over the years, I think our cadets and their parents, as part of our society in general, have been affected by the malaise of selfishness where there is an expectation of unrepaid entitlement, of getting whatever one wants without having to do anything for it and that is not something our forefathers would have been guilty of. Has our organisation therefore been tainted in that we, the leadership, happily ignore the development opportunity that these major courses offer after the trainees return to their Sqns?

15

I think people forget that cadets (or at least their parents) are paying to be in the Corps.

In return for them paying subs, we provide training.

If they want to give you more than their cash, then they’re decent folks and should be thanked, but that extra commitment shouldn’t be taken for granted.

16

I think we’re in danger of going down a bit of a hole here. I (and I think GHE2 in his original post) am not saying that every cadet should ‘pay back’ all the training they are provided with. Moreover, if you look at simple monetary values of the things they do, subs will never cover things. My point is that the MAJOR courses that our more senior young men and women undertake, such as JL and QAIC, should be of benefit to more people than simply the course attendee. My further point is that in passing on their new skills, the senior cadets are also getting personal development.

Ideally, there should be a huge benefit to your Sqn as a whole when one of your cadets wins a place on one of these courses.

17

[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=9431]Where do you get this notion that of a suggestion about “owning” cadets?

If you have cadets do a DI course, NCO course, FMS instructor, MOI, BELA, First Aid, Radio course etc etc, or, just be an experienced cadet, would you not have an expectation that they use their acquired skill, knowledge, experience at the sqn to encourage and develop the other cadets, ie give something back? Then be somewhat disappointed if they didn’t? We use our senior cadets as ‘mentors’ for new cadets and how they carry this out is one of the things used when looking at promotion candidates, which I imagine will be frowned upon.

As for our forefathers, yes, because unless my cadet squadron and those of my mates were anomalies, this sort of expectation “of putting back” into the Corps has been there for at least 35 years of my life, when I was considered experienced enough to start helping new cadets.

I’m not entirely convinced the idea of pushing it as a one way street is conducive with the idea of service to others, which is to my mind one of the things we should be promoting with cadets.[/quote]The only time I would worry either way is if their attending the course bumped off someone who might have made greater use of the training within the course.

If I have a first aid course, and my candidates are:

Cadet A: Plans to remain on the unit for the remaining 2 years of their cadet service, and then go on to become staff and use the qual to teach cadets and provide first aid cover

Cadet B: Is a good cadet, but is leaving in 3 months time to go to university

If I have one place available, then clearly cadet A will get first refusal. But if they don’t want it - or I have two places - then clearly I would be more than happy to send cadet B along. They will benefit from the course, get something out of it and maybe save a life someday. Future employers might well look favourably upon them.

As has been pointed out, the ATC exists essentially to provide experiences, skills and training for cadets. As staff, I will use the finite pool of resources in such a way as creates the greatest benefit for the greatest number of cadets, but I won’t hold anyone back just because the unit itself won’t benefit. And that includes subsidising cadets to go on courses, if the unit can afford it and the cadet would struggle to raise the funds themselves.

18

I have completed the QAIC, the first one at MOD Boscombe Down.
On the course you are told that you are expected to assist with and/or run the RAC/WAC on weekends.

Personally I think they type of people who are attracted to the course are the ones who want to stay in the cadets till they are 20.
On completing the course, the cadet needs to then work with the staff to make things happen, ie taking the sqn away to a RAC for a weekend, the cadet is trained to run that weekend themselves with staff just there to assist and/or ratios.

19

Thank you mprentice.

I hope you enjoyed the course.

20

I’ll tell you what you get - a nice flying suit and badge to ponce around in at RIAT…

(no offence :slight_smile: seemed like nice guys the ones I met!)