So it’s been confirmed, joining age to be lowered to 12 from September. What does this mean for staff cadets?
https://twitter.com/bell_atc/status/487104663549120512
I think I might wait for actual policy rather than twitter…
And the official announcement is here
For those without access seeing as the document has no restrictive markings -
[quote=“SO1”] CADET JOINING AGE
With effect from 1st August 2014 the regulations specifying cadet joining age will change. ACP 20 PI 501, AP 1919 para 402 and JSP 814 have been or will be amended. Other ACPs and regulations are being revised as a result of this change.
The new regulation is as follows:
A young person who is over 12 years of age becomes eligible to join the Air Cadet Organisation from the start of school year 8 in England and Wales, year S2 in Scotland and Year 9 in Northern Ireland. In addition any young person becomes eligible to join when they reach 13 years of age regardless of their school year. A person can not join after their 17th birthday.
[/quote]
In reference to Staff Cadets, there is no change at the present time but as per your link the Comdt has highlighted that their will be a review of 18+ service, and has previously mentioned this in her column in Air Cadet. Consider that we are the only Cadet Force with 18+ service, as the ACF are removing their curious 18.9 limit, and reducing to a straight 18 for all.
Should 18+ service be removed then I believe that the rank of CWO should also be abolished, however I can also see a potential move back to required rank for continued service, as was the case pre- LASER Review. The organisation has a lot to offer to our senior cadets, with QAIC & JL developed especially for them, and it would be a shame to see that element of lost.
Anyone know the reference for a works service order to get the creche and ballpool that will be needed soon… :whistle:
I think CWO should now be lost as a rank, as old time CWO now it is only something to add to the collection. The majority aren’t in post long enough to be what I would call proper CWOs. The only element pre LASER Review was CWO to continue cadet service between 20 and 22.
Nonsense JL and QUAIC are far too selective and require cadets who effectively do nothing outside the Corps. I’ve had several cadets show interest but, the fact they work part-time has put them off. It’s hard enough for them to get odd days off at weekends, shuffle shifts or do a bit then go to work for things at sqn and up to Region level, so JL or QUAIC with the initial selection process and then attendance requirement has been out of the question. There is nothng truly inclusive / open to all over 18s, that doesn’t require some sort of selection process or acceptance criteria. I’ve only known one cadet do JL and one do QUAIC, the one who did JL had a day job but struggled to get there at times and the other binned his job and was bankrolled by mum and dad according to their CO. I don’t have any parents able to even consider that. The older cadets I have (16+) work out of need.
[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=19652]
Nonsense JL and QUAIC are far too selective and require cadets who effectively do nothing outside the Corps. I’ve had several cadets show interest but, the fact they work part-time has put them off. It’s hard enough for them to get odd days off at weekends, shuffle shifts or do a bit then go to work for things at sqn and up to Region level, so JL or QUAIC with the initial selection process and then attendance requirement has been out of the question. There is nothng truly inclusive / open to all over 18s, that doesn’t require some sort of selection process or acceptance criteria. I’ve only known one cadet do JL and one do QUAIC, the one who did JL had a day job but struggled to get there at times and the other binned his job and was bankrolled by mum and dad according to their CO. I don’t have any parents able to even consider that. The older cadets I have (16+) work out of need.[/quote]
That is all to do with how many courses are run though! If there were enough staff willing to run things like QAIC and JL then more cadets would be able to attend. There is of course also the argument of investing that extra time into a cadet who isn’t fully committed to the ATC, but I think quiting a job is a little extream.
Maybe we will hit that recruitment target the RAF set us afterall…
Nothing: staff cadets are all far older than 12.
So we’ve dropped the joining age to 12. yay…
Next stop, why not get in line with the SCC - 10…
Just no!
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So are they going to leave the minimum ages for flying, etc at 13yrs 3 mths? Or designate it simply as ‘enrolled’ (i.e. 3 months after joining)?
No school year 8. My children had plenty of mates who were 13 before the end of September. What this does is not exclude the ones who do hit 13 before say the end of October, having their mates join with them.
Over the years I’ve had a number of cadets who have joined within a few days of hitting 13 and 3 as it was and then 13. Believe me having had 3 children there is no magic switch in terms of maturity, or whatever you might like to refer it as, between 12 years 365 days and 13. They are exactly the same, just another year older. It the same for everything where there is an arbitrary age applied. When I hit 50, my car insurance went down quite considerably, just because I was 50. Nothing at all to do with me as an individual.
This is the bit that concerns me. What they can do as say a 12 year old or before they hit our arbitrary age points, should have been all done at the same time.
I have to admit I am surprised at the speed of the decision, how successful it is depends on the speed of the decisions around activities that can be done.
I still see plenty of references to 13 and 3 months - I would have thought that those would have been wiped out already when the enrolment age of 13&3 was dropped
I think CWO should now be lost as a rank, as old time CWO now it is only something to add to the collection. The majority aren’t in post long enough to be what I would call proper CWOs. The only element pre LASER Review was CWO to continue cadet service between 20 and 22.[/quote]
Proper CWO’s or not, it doesn’t seem to bother the CCF, so why should ATC cadets be ‘disadvantaged’ (with the cessation of CWO) compared to their CCF peers?
ACF manage to fit in 2 WO ranks and an extra JNCO rank in the same time frame.
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and the CCF - all branches… cadets can serve to the end of their upper sixth year, potentially 18.10.5.
I think there is a world of difference between the CCF and what I will refer to as the normal ATC. My understanding is cadet parades in the CCF are managed in the general school day and then if they are boarders they have nowhere else to go. My general experience of those hitting “upper 6th” is reduced attendance/participation as they are combining part-time work with studies. So a reduction to 18 across the ACO, would IMO solve a number of problems.
Here’s a question that has just occurred to me. Do schools with integrated 6th Forms DBS all those over 18? If not, especially in the case of schools with a CCF what is the difference between an 18 year old in the ‘cadets’ and an 18 year old who is not a cadet. I’ve been into a couple of local schools which have in the last few years opened 6th Forms and over 18s freely mix with all pupils. I imagine there are those in the “upper 6th” with relationships with minors. It makes you wonder why we and other youth organisations get so tetchy about it, I don’t think the working with argument stands up, as they aren’t IMO really working with them as adult staff do.
As for age points for activities, I don’t think that the ATC has properly managed/addressed these since the minimum joining age was changed from 13 yrs 3 mths and minimum enrolment was 13 yrs 9 mths.
Schools don’t need to DBS over 18 because they are not in a position of responsibility/authority like over 18 cadets ‘supposedly’ are. There are plenty of places over and under 18s mix but where DBS isn’t an issue.
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So prefect or whatever (if schools still have them) aren’t positions of responsibility/authority? Generally these are the older pupils.
Back in the day when I was a prefect you were considered to be in an authoratative position, OK I wasn’t 18, but like all things it was open to abuse. However it was well before all this malarky and BS we have to go through today.