Try a 3-4 hours trip! For 20 minutes flight!
So is there any reason to apply for promotion? Why would a CFAV apply to be promoted to FS or FgOff? What do they get out of it? How does it benefit anyone? Just curious. I’ve never been there, so wondering why people bother with the promotion matrix thingy.
Recognition of experience, greater responsibility, different roles. The biggest difference is when you go to events with others who don’t know you - a Sgt could be day 1 post ATF or day 1000 having already done everything. It can be incredibly frustrating as a relatively experienced and skilled NCO.
Being a FS is an automatic indicator that you’ve been around for a bit and done stuff.
Also, increased VA.
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Rank can recognise skills, experience and commitment, so for some people promotion to Fg Off, Flt Lt etc is a welcome recognition of all the hard work and results that they’ve delivered for cadets.
As Giminion says, it also indicates to others that you’re competent and able to contribute. For me, this is one of the huge disadvantages of the restrictions on Flt Lt rank. If you are a Fg Off dealing with regulars, their perception will be quite different if you’re a Flt Lt. Fg Off is very much a development rank in the regulars, but we could have 20+ year experienced ex-OCs or Wg staff who would drop back to Fg Off. This isn’t an issue with the NCO promotions (at the moment).
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Including sqn cdrs… that’s a technical position!
2nd part of that bit is key…
Out of interest on this subject, did anyone every get any clarification regarding how the old time served Flt Lt promotion applies now?
For example if someone get Flt Lt time served just before the matrix introduction, or had been in that rank due to role for long enough, if they then gave up the role would the Flt Lt time served be honoured, or if they had been time served promoted would they be ‘demoted’ to Flying Officer?
If you were Flt Lt (Unpaid) at the point of CFC introduction you retained this rank. Should you promote to a a Sqn Ldr role and then return to being a Sqn Officer on any sqn other than an A status you’d revert to Fg Off I think (although this could be challenged I suspect)
If you were in a Flt Lt (Paid) position at point of CFC (OC Sqn / WSO) then a change in position would result in reverting to Fg Off, as you will never have been processed as Flt Lt (Unpaid) for time served.
Not sure, but I can tell you Flt Lt to Sqn Ldr is 21 year reckonable service as an officer… (no allowance for service as a SNCO)
I think the removal of time served Flt Lt / reversion to Fg Off on stepping down from a post was the worst part of the CFC.
It is out of sync with the NCO cadre and the regular/reserve.
It is unlikely to ever affect me but it’s caused plenty of resentment among officers I know.
And Acting (Unpaid) costs nothing.
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I wish I could like this more than once. The policy causes resentment but has no benefits.
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Where is this written down? Are you saying that at the 21 year mark, a Flt Lt (Paid) is promoted to Sqn Ldr (Unpaid)?
I’m guessing that’s in the RAF and not us
direct comms to me…
My understanding is that if you were a post-9 year Flt Lt RAFVR (paid or unpaid) then you retained that rank irrespective of role, when you transitioned to the CFC. If you were subsequently promoted to Sqn Ldr and then reverted at a later date, you reverted to your (RAFVR) rank of Flt Lt, not Fg Off.
I’ve known several Sqn Ldrs both in my former Wg and on Regional teams, who relinquished their rank and reverted to Flt Lt.
I further understand that if you were commissioned directly to CFC, then you can go up and down the ranks like a yo-yo as the CFC commission had no time-served facility built into it.
All that said, I’m happy to be corrected if anyone can find a different text in the relevant book of words.
Thanks all. Reason I asked is that personally I had the nine years service in before the CFC was introduced, but was already Flt Lt due to being Sqn OC. Can’t remember exactly what the promotion was put down as when it was made.
I’m not really fussed about rank to be fair, don’t do it for that, just wondering what happens if I were to ever relinquish the OC role but stay as an Officer. Think the biggest annoyance would be getting the no.1’s re ranked!
I was told that time-served promotion in the CCF(RAF) was discontinued back in 2016?
[Edited to add: that document is dated 2019 so I was obviously given duff gen].
Nope. The current CCF regs (issued two years ago I think) have it in still. They got rid of time served Wing Commander but the rest is still there.
I think they were wanting to get rid of it, but needed tri-service agreement or something like that.
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Flight Lieutenant to Squadron Leader in the real RAF would be (in the region of) 12 years, though I know people to have got it much faster.
In my branch it was moreorless guaranteed to be at the 12 year point - but that’s when I was in, might’ve changed since.