So all officers get Group Captain now yeah - that would make me feel very valued 
Also, if they are in a mess of their own, who teaches them the proper way to behave?
If you recall, some 11 years ago at a Wg conference, I did a presentation on how many days training CFAV’s in other CF did as opposed to - what was then still - the ATC. The SCC and ACF waaaayyyy outnumbered us on time spent both on initial and developmental staff training.
It’s sad to see that nothing has changed despite the rhetoric of various CAC’s and the so-called VoV.
[Edited to add:] I’ve actually found the original presentation and the stats (as they were then) are as follows:
Total ACF training days:
PI: 11 days
SI: 7 days
SSI: 15 days
Total: 38 days.
SCC:
PCI: 7 days
PO\Sgt: 9 days
CPO\CSgt: 11 days
Total: 32 days
ATC:
CI: 1 day
Sgt: 5 days
Plt Off: 5 days
SCC: 5 days
Total: 16 days
And thats without data for officer training in the SCC & ACF. Maybe someone with a background in one or the other (or both!) could enlighten us as to the number of training days a commissioned officer has to complete.
ACF officers do a modular course over a year, IIRC it is 2 weekends but they do local training mentoring and projects during the year.
I’m pretty sure they have to do SAAI before commissioning too (for NCOs maybe from SSI to SMI?)
The difficulty with some of these ideas although great and would help with quality is that we dont have enough volunteers going into uniform.
We then find that these individuals get thrown into OC roles and struggle to balance work, home life and what apparently is a hobby (rafac). If they were then asked to do additional learning, I am not sure many would finish it before throwing the towel in.
We need to find a solution to recruitment and retention but then retention would be helped with this development training (chicken and egg).
I think you’re missing the points.
We dont have enough volunteers going into uniform because we dont have a training and development path for them to follow into uniform
If there was such training and development these CFAVs wont be thrown into roles blind and still finding their feet
It isn’t a chicken and egg…it should be obvious training and development then appointments and promotions…it works and works well for othe CF
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There are some things though where you do just have to have been round the block a few times.
There’s plenty of trial and error in this organisation. No amount of staff development days will produce the perfect OC, Adj, TrgOff.
There’s a lot to be said for experience. A lot more than the CoC give credit for, and us old hats take for granted.
The main barrier to all of this is our onboarding process. And then a further barrier is availability of courses.
We’ve seen steps in the right direction, but when you’ve made someone wait 6 months to even turn up, then say you need to do a bunch of mandatory courses which run at best once a quarter, if they’re not canx…
So yes I agree, staff training and development required - but let’s sort the onboarding pipeline out first.
When we can turn that around in a week or two, then we can think about proper development.
At the moment it’s hard enough getting anyone to agree to wait for the turnaround of the paperwork.
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No CI I’ve ever asked has cited this as a reason for not going into uniform.
I would say that pretty much every CI has said that this is a factor in not applying for a uniformed role.
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Likewise.
But doesn’t mean that if it were introduced we’d not see an uptake…because irs not bring asked for now
My previous post was in answer/reaction to what do the other CF do differently that makes the RAFAC so different.
By their example the system does work abd because the RAFAC doesn’t have the sane system or a RAFAC version that therefore is the difference between "us and them’
The next part of the topic is so we want more uniformed staff/fewer CIs/more CIs in uniform?
If the answer is yes then a prescribed procedure to make it happen is vound to be more successful than waiting for CIs to make their mind up when its the right time (having been poked in the chest for the nth time by the WSO why they are not in uniform)
I agree with your points entirely
BUT the deeper issue is we don’t have enough applicants in total. Increase the number of applicants and hopefully the number going into uniform will rise too.
What do we actually do to recruit CFAV (gen quiestion)?
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We also need to stop making people a CI by default. New volunteers should go into uniform, unless there’s a genuinely good reason to make them a CI.
The policy is there to support it - direct entrant SNCO and options for commission for those who’ve got suitable previous experience; but it requires a change of mindset… Much like promotion requires a change of mindset. We need a shift of consciousness.
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The honest answer is re dont and rely on parents & ex-cadets joining rather than widening our pool. Compare us with the SCC growth & development teams and we’re rearranging the deck chairs while declaring the ship is unsinkable &’we are worrying over nothing.
Preach!
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This is the point ive been making above.
Appoint CFAVs with a training and progress path to uniform
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I disagree with this mindset as we would loose a lot of volunteers from the start. The local ACF do this and they are struggling to staff their units on a single night basis.
Stats that would support your idea is the % of CIs who go into uniform with in three years of joining. I suspect that it would be low but anything more than 30-40% would mean your point would be worth of further investigation.
If you rush numbers to get people through you will have a drop in quality - something the police is experiencing with the drive for 20000 new officers.
I suspect that would happen with us & we would get the wrong people in the wrong roles.
What I would suggest is that at this time there is a temp ban on new SNCO appointments and the only uniform option is Officer.
It will safe guard the longitivtiy of the organisation and reduce the fact that those who want to go into uniform only go into the lowest rung. Otherwise you will have the same arguement later on.
However this cannot be done as the only option magic bullet & must be with other options.
Didn’t 2FTS try this and have since reverted due to numbers not progressing with applications?
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Plenty of ATC units struggle to staff units so I don’t buy this as cause and effect.
I would say as an OC lost more volunteers who simply didn’t want to be CI’s so never followed through on joining as we were forcing them to be CI’s or who left because they were stuck as CI’s unable to get into uniform due to a slow and pointless system.
Off topic but you started it. The issue isn’t getting numbers through, it’s yeh College of Policing discarding traditional recruitment routes and the Macpherson report which destroyed Police Training and Discipline.
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Why not both?
There seems to be kickback against making everyone a CI, but to make everyone uniformed I think risks being even worse.
You’d then exclude all those that have not the slightest interest in drill, uniform, shouting, etc. Plenty of great CIs who just run their own little bit, be it stores or admin, whatever it may be.
Is there any reason you couldn’t have someone turn up and say ‘hi I’m interested’ and then just give them both options?
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I know many uniformed staff who have little interest in these things, so don’t really see that as a blocker.
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The way I look at it… We are a uniformed organization with a great shortage of uniformed staff.
When the cadets are all required to don a uniform and care for it from the start, but on the average unit they look to the staff team and see 6 people in civies and 1 or two in rig, something needs to change.
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