Policy change – dbs and probationary dates

POLICY CHANGE – DBS AND PROBATIONARY DATES

Since the introduction of Criminal Record Checks (ex-CRB/now DBS), HQAC policy has been adapted to suit the needs of both the Organisation and of Cheadle Hulme. Following the recent Safeguarding Audit and, with the knowledge that Criminal Records Checks are now being completed in a relatively short time, the Comdt has supported the decision to revert to previous policy whereby all CFAV may only attend and start probation from the date of their DBS clearance. Official appointment dates will be either the DBS date or Board date, whichever is the latest. The interim policy of permitting new applicants to attend a Unit pending clearance is to cease with immediate effect (date of this announcement). This will negate the need to suspend any applicant for failing to produce their Clearance within the timescale. This policy refers to England and Wales only, Scotland and Northern Ireland policies remain extant. Policy documents will be amended in due course.

In line with this revision, you are reminded that appointments must be made within 6 months of the DBS date or the clearance becomes invalid. The Personnel Dept will return any application that does not meet these requirements.

We are still using the paper system, it takes months… This is a backward step. We will loose many potential staff.

Just had a DBS done in work. Filled details on line, supplied docks to appointed person took a week

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Balls, that’s one of my CIs gone for the foreseeable future. He’s been waiting for his for months.

Where do they get their info?

i was going to post a picture, but when i went googling for a suitable image, all i got were the most exquisite buns ever to be seen - and i’m not sharing them with you lot.

and some stuff about such images not being suitable for this website etc…

DBS vary on person. People with lots of addresses in their 5 years (especialy across different police force areas) delay the process. A straight forward one only takes about 4 weeks (in the ACO).

That’s me binned for a while then. I’ve been waiting 3 weeks and last night got my paperwork back from wing saying there was a mistake. Seems like one hurdle after another to join this organisation

Recently completed a fresh DBS as my previous was going out of date, applied 3 months ahead of time in order to avoid any chance of suspension, which I doubt I would return from if it was extended.

It came through within a month :smiley: and that was with 3 addresses in the past 5 years

Still waiting for T&E submitted in July though :rolleyes:

The ATC doesn’t set the rules for DBS. DBS do funny enough.

Sorry I’ll clarify the remark, my wing still hadn’t sent the DBS forms off after sitting in their in-tray for 3 weeks. I fully understand the need for a DBS and the reason it can be a lengthy process.

Has this been distributed to sqn? Not seen anything yet.

As for DBS, can clear quickly if ducks in a row.

Whilst individuals get annoyed at delays, and seem to always put the blame at DBS’s door, this is not always the case. There are many hurdles to get clearance; who’s ever heard of the OC’s brief case, Wing HQ’s who are busy or the potential CI who forgets to bring in a copy of the clearance. The actual checks that DBS undertake are striaghtforward, they do it for many different organisations; the problems are internal ACO problems; the organisation at every level needs to be more switched on. For every 1 person who does their best, there are always others out there who don’t!

I recently completed my DBS for the Scouts as an “occasional helper” (I assist with one event a year)

I turned up at the leaders house clutching docs.
he signs into @ltantic Datatbase (a contractor for the Scouts who complete the admin side) he selects my name from the lists and we fill in the boxes for the DL. Birth Cert and Passport number after confirming my address and DOB are still valid.

he then disappears and hands over to me. i have a dozen or so more personal questions which was easier for me to navigate through, either drop down or box select the valid answer and it was done.

i spent 45minutes at his house and that included hello pleasantries and a call to the helpdesk and the chap could log in (turns out was using his group rather than troop email), in reality it was all done within 25minutes.
a week later a certificate arrives on my doormat.
simple.

in contrast the ATC:
i have on my desk at home a dozen pages of DBS form to fill out, by hand. this then goes to Wing, and through the process…4 weeks isn’t long, but it is four times longer than the Scouts system and a hell of a lot more effort and with more bumps along the way to snag and delay the process…

my Mrs - a primary school teacher - did hers on tuesday. it included a name change and an address change. it took about the same time as yours…

bottom. both hands. the dark.

Steve and Angus have both hit the nail on the head, it’s takes so much longer through the ACO than it should. I’m off to my Sqn tonight and if the OC says bye bye until you’re cleared by wing then he may not see me until the new year. Am I right in saying that I wouldn’t be able to attend until I’m cleared by wing (not when I get my DBS) when they actually get around to looking at the paperwork?

This process is an essential one, overly complicated by the different layers with the ACO.

It needs simplifying/delegating down to a lower level so that it can be completed quickly & efficiently, without the potential for delays up the chain. I would assess a “Scout Leader” as at the same comparative level as a sqn cdr - or maybe a bit more grown up! :wink:

to be fair it is over complicated by the System.

why can the police, teacher, nurse DBS not be universally accepted?
why do some people have 2, 3, or in one case i know 7DBS clearances…this is just unnecessarily blocking up the system.

if you do something that would flag up on a DBS, which is going to have Police records somewhere along the lines why can’t the police when they run my name through their system it flag up *DBS HOLDER and they can then inform the correct authority a member of theirs is in the wrong?

every 5 years i have to prove i am innocent when it should be easier to do it once and then have the system tell the authority when i am guilty. it is left hand not talking to the right hand.

why are CFAVs suspended once it “runs out”?
Innocent until proven guilty. i have been proven innocent once (or more times) already…am i not innocent until proven otherwise?
how many CFAVs have had a second, third or forth DBS come back red when all previous were green?

if it were that serious to be on a DBS would my name not be through the papers?
“Cadet instructor caught fiddling books/with children/with drugs/etc”

The Daily Mail would have a field day, yet here we are every year spending ££££ on time and money to prove innocent people are innocent!

@Romeo_hotel what is VERY IMPORTANT is to remember the the DBS Certificate will now ONLY come to the applicants home address.

It is then there responsibility to attend the unit and present this to the OC who will then pass the details onto WHQ.

The action is very much on the applicant, they won’t be invited back, as the ACO has no knowledge of the DBS Certificate being sent through to you!

I’ve got that bit and trust me I’ll be back at the Sqn or taking it to wing as soon as I get it. My gripe is that it has taken 3 weeks for the Wing Admin staff to check all of my forms through before seeing what they thought was a mistake on the forms and sending them back (there was no mistake). With all of the emphasis on recruiting and retaining staff that is going on why does it take so long to send the forms away to DBS in the first place, this is the overly drawn out process I am referring to. As Steve says above why can’t we use an online system that takes some of the admin burden away from Wing HQ? Is this a wide spread issue or is it just my wing which seems to be unable to cope?

i think ‘unable to cope’ is not just restricted to your wing, or indeed the DBS issue…

They are, but it’s down to the organisation to choose if they accept it or not.

The update service works well in theory but organisations aren’t changing their policy to match it. The MOD won’t change for a good 10 years at the earliest either.

Capita do these checks online. They would be an ideal partner to process ours but this won’t ever happen.

The problem lies with the combination of DBS and our over the top application process for new people.
A lady we know started a new job in a school last June, she had an interview in the middle of May, they took copies of her documentation in case she was offered a job, when she was offered and accepted entered it on to an online DBS system she filled out a few details and the DBS came through within a week and she started at the beginning of the last ½ term. The timescale from sending her application to starting the job was 6 weeks. The school had notification that her DBS had cleared, unlike the ATCs system of sending a photocopy to Wing before it’s recognised. This six weeks included getting two references. Also apart from a signature on the form for the payroll dept she didn’t have to put pen to paper, it was all done electronically.
Compare this to the ATCs current process of;

  • someone approaching us
  • us asking Wing for the forms
  • us getting the forms
  • us telling the person the forms are with us / giving them the forms
  • the person getting the forms from us
  • us having to get references
  • sending them back to Wing
  • Wing sending the DBS to Cheadle Hume and the ATC paperchase for the other bits
  • at some point getting a WSO down to interview them to ensure they are of ‘the right stuff’ as it was put to me. TBH go with the DBS if it’s clear crack on as the interview only ever seems to be about getting them in a blue suit quickly, which if they’re not keen and give us a miss, which I have heard as being interpreted as there must have been something ‘wrong’ with them and they didn’t want to get found out.

With all this the process can at the very least be doubled from the example I’ve given.

What is needed is a change to our process to make it more like a job application process. If (as it seems) it works for schools and no doubt similar organisations why it can’t work for us, is a mystery, well notwithstanding any MoD faffng and jobsworth mindset.

the MOD system of application means the forms, once complete don’t go to DBS direct but via Defence vetting at Imphal barracks, York.
My forms were submitted on the 10 June, processed by DVA by the 20 Aug and with the DBS from 23 Aug.
There’s your delay. BTW still not completed and this is for MOD work not just the ACO