Do we know when this is going to pushed down through CoC? Still nothing heard officially yet!
Ssssh!
Pretend it didn’t happen.
Knowing some wing’s admin. It probably won’t.
This is quite surprising. We got an email a few days ago, but then it’s something telling us what we can’t do (or bad news) so always a priority. If it had been good news I’d have been surprised if it came out of HQAC. I’m surprised that it’s not all over Facebook or Twitter given that many of the senior types love it so much.
It makes me laugh when the high and mighty bang on about doing everything online/electronically and get all excited about, yet our staff application processes are all paper based and no sign of ever changing. The fact it is all paper-based and using various snail mail routes, is why things take so bloody long. Yes I know we are stuck with MoD / CS mandarins (to protect and maintain contracts) who require bits of paper to move around between desks to keep themselves in jobs, but it is laughable when other parts of the public sector, such as schools and local authorities, have managed to get into the 21st Century with respect to their staff processes.
Makes me laugh that some people are ignorant as to why this has come in. Think about it. The corps are stopping people having access to cadets for a reason. That being 1. people lie, 2. Sqn Cdrs don’t ensure new staff don’t have unrestricted access, 3. people lie on their applications, 4. those people are bad people, 5. these people have to have their applications terminated months down the line becaue they have bad things on their DBS.
Really, what organisation let strangers have unvetted access to vulnerable or minors? Imagine something happened to your kids from one of these people… What would YOU be saying right now?
i’d probably start by asking why the ACO DBS takes more than two thouand times longer than my childrens school DBS…
if the ACO had a dozen braincells to rub together within its collective HQ’s, it would grasp that by going online with its DBS it would eliminate two problems: the first of large quantities of paperwork - and therefore manhours, and therefore cash cost and opportunity cost, and the number of people who walk in looking to help who are given 3.5 tonnes of paper, told to fill it out, wait for someone to lose it all, fill it out again, and then wait between 4 and 6 weeks before being allowed to walk back in the building. oddly, many of them don’t bother having found something else to do with their time.
there are two issues - the DBS which tells us whether people are kiddy-fiddlers, or to be more correct, crap kiddy-fiddlers who’ve been caught, and whatever security check is done this week to ensure that the bloke you send to a camp at RAF Waddington is not infact a member of IS or the FSB.
it makes me laugh that a bloke who pretends he’s deeply switched on doesn’t understand the difference between doing something faster and much less painfully and not doing it…
1 Like
You are so wrong. The ACO does not control DBS, it’s the MOD. Ask them why. Secondly it’s not just kiddy fiddlers its those with serious criminal convictions, or those with a significant criminal series. You don’t want them stealing your kids iPhone now do you! People always think it’s (DBS) about the kiddy fiddlers.
ABH, GBH, fraud, history of domestic violence, history of drink and drug abuse, history of alcoholism, history of rape* are all reasons (and more commonly seen) than a “fiddler” trying their luck
*there was (maybe is) an example in the Wing where a 18+ was DBS’d and found he has “rape” against his name. turns out at a sub-18 “house party” a couple of friends had some drinks and as sometimes happens one thing followed another…girl cries “rape” (touched up more than intercourse) but because there was not enough evidence the lad was cautioned and appears on his criminal record…!
I doubt that. If there wasn’t enough evidence he wouldn’t have had anything recorded other than the arrest itself.
It also shows a startling lack of compassion for sexual abuse if you’re implying that because people get drunk then a girl can’t help but accept sexual contact, or that she was somehow the problem for “crying rape”. But that’s a different story.
Let’s avoid going down that rabbit hole
1 Like
i’ll offer you the details offline
The MoD/CS probably doesn’t have many roles where DBS is intrinsic to the role. I imagine the majority of MoD/CS DBS cleared staff are in secondary duties, so an expedient DBS process is unimportant and the current system keeps bums on seats. You only need to look at the security vetting side which is online, primarily because it is intrinsic to a vast number of MoD/CS roles. Why have schools and LAs adopted online DBS … because it is intrinsic to the roles.
If you add into this the archaic ‘everything’ by Royal Mail we use, when the real world went all electronic / online for applications sometime ago, means you add weeks to a process that should take days.
All of our job applications come via email at work and if someone applies, when they can start depends on their period notice at their current employer, if they are unemployed they can almost start the next day.
We don’t in the ACO have people coming in with a period notice, so anything that takes more than 3-4 weeks is a nonsense.
It doesn’t matter if the DBS takes 2-3 days or 3+ months anyone with a record will flag. The DBS at standard level picks up cautions, reprimands and even if you had been involved in ‘undesirable actvities’, not just prosecutions. I think we may also be subject to barred list checks. However an ‘employer’ can choose to look at these and ignore them (except barred list entries) based on time since the incident and still appoint.
exactly…we have a member of staff who flags up each time with ABH…
Not to mention that with the current 5 year renewal, you could theoretically be arrested, charged and convicted of something and the ACO wouldn’t find out for up to 5 years.
You would have to be bloody clever to prevent anyone finding out, especially if it was for something that would affect being a member of staff.
Also you’re real life would potentially be affected to the extent that the ACO bizzarely loses all significance. Strange as it is to think that might be a consequence.
POPrune, Noone here has been saying we don’t need DBS, it just takes a stupid amount of time to get it back.
It’s not just the DBS process itself, it’s all the other things you have to do like interviews, BASIC courses etc which my wing require before they will even send the DBS form off!
You do a BASIC before they send off the DBS???
Why!
Why, Because every layer of management put their own spin on thing in the ATC.
34 wings times 6 regions that gives 204 ways on interpreting the rules and regulations of the organisation.
I would go onto say that individual Wing Staff also add in bits and some squadrons as well, so you end up with far more than 204 variations.
All that is wrong with the current appointment system within the ATC is illustrated thus.
An appointment of a SNCO fromCI
Date of appointment 17 May 2015
Date published in Wing routine orders and hence when individual is informed 24 Nov 15
Why does it take over 6 month to get somebody into uniform, WHY
That sounds more for joint snafu. Whilst there is a delay at HQAC, why wasn’t the individual told as soon as the paperwork received back at Wing HQ? Our staff are informed immediately the paperwork is received from HQAC, with notification via WSOs at a later date. Our SNCOs are normally in uniform after about 3 mths.