Originally-proposed changes to RAFAC Wings / Flying badges : did this ever happen?

Back in Jun 2020, I created the thread https://forum.aircadetcentral.net/t/ibn-16-20-rationalisation-of-royal-air-force-flying-badges-under-astra/7968/31

There was a related relevant response from @tmmorris:

I do remember having seen (somewhere?) some types of what might have been proposed designs, utilising the RAF/AC letters-logo within a wreath (ie partly-emulating the classic RAF monogram design for pilot wings and the more-recent WESO/WESOp half-wings).

Did this eventually come to pass? I accept that I’ve not been in many RAFAC locations post-Covid where I might’ve had the chance to spot these ‘in the wild’, but I’m also unclear as to where these ‘new’ (if approved?) badges might be lurking within online documentation.

I may have just missed all announcements on this (if they were made) and am the last person in the world to require a re-brief on this, but please feel free to offer me your informed facts (or fevered suspicions, if appropriate)

(nb none of the above query relates to PTS badges…unless you’re going to tell me in fact it does!)

Evening @wilf_san, yes the redesign came to fruition, and they’ve started to appear on cadets uniforms.

Not too sure how this looks as its a screenshot from my phone

But its IBN 029 if its easier to find it

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Yes, but no flying badges for CFAV with civilian flying qualifications - that was (perhaps understandably) quashed higher up the CoC.

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I know of a couple of people who argued this case. Both clearly unsuccesfully.

I can see both sides.
RAF dont want loads of CFAVs thinking they are fast jet pilots or equivilanet, when in the mess or on station.

Equally.
For those who have achieved a reasonable civi flying qual such as CPL or ATPL it would seem to me to make sense that in an ‘air, space and cyber’ focused org, that this is recognised as something worthy of highlighting…?

Wouldnt take much to create a new badge or maybe just let these staff where the white ‘C badge’ who knows :man_shrugging:

Its not like it really matters.

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There are special VR wings for regulars and sponsored reservists e.g. air tanker crews. Not sure why this isnt an option for CFAV

Edit to add link: This is a high quality RAF VR Blue Reserve Pilot Wings Badge

They do a flying role for the RAF.

Pilots who fly AEF can wear flying badges as appropriate for their role, and those who have a qualification from their service time can continue wearing them.

People who have no service qualifications and don’t perform a role for the organisation have no need to wear one.

They perform a role for our organisation. We should be able and willing to recognise the skills of our own members. This is an example of being held to their whim for their benefit and preference.

We give cadets “wings” for far less than a civvy pilot has done to earn recognition.

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They do, yes, but not a relevant one. They’re not in a flying role, so any flying qualification they have from outside the service isn’t relevant.

It’s nice, sure, but that’s not how the system works.

We do. Within the boundaries of the uniform rules of our parent organisation, who’s uniform we wear.

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Indeed.

I would for example also allow CFAVs who are medics or Drs to wear this insignia if they wished.

What needs sorting out before the very few CFAVs that have a civvie pilots quals get to wear wings is the mad mad situation where cadets that go to one flying school and get a PPL wear gold wings and them that do the exact same licence at another flying school only get the lesser C Wings. That can’t be right.

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Neither are the cadets… But for staff many will be involved with relevant training even if not on live aircraft.

Ignoring the cadet version, which even has a “C” option for non-mil achievement.

The statement that perpetuates a great many problems.

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I completely understand where you’re coming from, but it’s simply never going to happen.

And my point is I can’t see a single reason why it should beyond self-aggrandising. There’s just no need for it.

A sticking plaster on a gaping wound of more important issues :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

An offer of scraps to distract.

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Touché :rofl:

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Whilst I’m no fan of the two-winged master race, there are countless bods out there who used to be service pilots who continue to wear wings but are no longer in a flying role.

What’s sauce for the goose and all that?

IMHO, it’s irrelevant in this context whether one qualifies as a civilian pilot or a service pilot - both are qualifications. In an organisation that is - allegedly - air-minded, staff who hold ATP\CPL or whatever, should be permitted to wear some form of wings. Let’s face it - there are some staff out there who continue to fly for civilian airlines and who have thousands of flying hours to their credit (not permitted to wear a flying brevet), as opposed to a former service pilot who may not have been behind a joystick since they last flew a Sopwith Camel (and continues to wear the pilots brevet).

Or would allowing civilian pilots to wear a flying brevet cause these former service pilots to foam at the mouth because it would diminish their ‘elite’ status?

[Edited].

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There are more than a few Reg types who are similar, as well!

But again, those are service qualifications, gained in the service, for which there is an approved uniform accreditation. We are talking about external qualifications, gained externally, for which there is no uniform allowance.

Just because they’re in a related field doesn’t make them comparable.

Then why is an allowance made for cadets who qualify at civilian clubs? Surely a precedent has already been set?

If you mean ‘Regiment’, then yes and I’m one of them.

Because the org is trying to cover up their inability to provide flying opportunities.

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Must be very rare for a Regiment type to have a flying brevet - Did you remuster, that must be some career story!

Er, no. I don’t have a flying brevet (well, apart from my Gliding Proficiency wings if that counts!).

That said, I have seen Regiment officers some with pilots brevet’s (and one with a MC as well) and my first OC in the Regiment had a Loadies brevet as well as mudguards.