So how long do most CCF CWOs hold the rank for?
Depends how good they are 
Having been one pre 2003, it was an achievement along with Staff Cadet and given you could do more than couple of years, it was worth having and had some kudos. Since 2003 I’ve not seen the point of the rank or Staff Cadets, come to that.
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Increase the amount of opportunities, yes, but you will decrease the amount of time to achieve them. If we reduce the leaving age to 18 what will be the max joining age?
The approach should be quality not quantity, ie don’t try and do everything, but do some things better.
It could be things are restricted by school year and to “6th Formers”, but on a you pick one to do and not all, which spreads the opportunities out a bit more. We have and have had “badge collectors” for years and I find they are dull.
I would reduce the upper joining age to Yr 11.
I had it for 7 months. Bearing in mind I left the CCF when I was 18 and 1 month that’s not a bad run.
That to me is not long enough!! It means you can’t grow into the rank, experience the role of a very senior cadet or influence the cadets below you.
My worry will be that the joining age will reduce to 12th birthday, which I feel would be inappropriate!
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at times with some new staff coming in straight from cadet service, it’s more like a habit that they have and turn up as usual on a sqn night and dont really want to think about making the next step as staff.
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Which is down to poor management of Staff Cadets if they are being used properly as Staff Cadets the step is natural and almost already made.
I would disagree I think at times it’s also about mentality of the cadets.
We had one who the staff brought on, got on courses helped to get what they wanted and then tried to get involved in teaching but they were not interested (a jl teaching a bit of field raft wasn’t much to ask!) When the time came to move to staff the OC sat them down spoke to them about their attitude and what as staff they would be required to do they were all apologetic and would change. Eventually they were asked to leave as they were just wanting to be a cadet
Why is this seen as such a bad thing?? They pay subs like every other cadet, so why should they be forced into a role they didn’t join up for?
IF the staff cadets wants to take on extra responsibility, now we have the tools to enable that. If not, then let them be cadets. All this “added value” crap grinds my gears!!!
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in that case - lets allow 25 years olds “just be cadets”
unfortunately there is a cut off, or line that is crossed at 18 and legal definition of an adult, and with it adult responsibilities come into play.
with those responsibilities is an expectation in attitude and approach to turning up - step up, or step out the door.
The organisation used to let 21 year olds be “just be cadets” with no legislative expectation of some “value” for the Corps, and the world didn’t implode… At 24, you can still be “just a participant” in the DofE with no expectation of helping organise the award.
What adult responsibilities currently come into play? If it’s a legal issues, how are cadets allowed to refuse responsibilities currently?
And presumably still pay subs for the pleasure of playing at staff?
It’s a lazy way to increase staff numbers, without any view to sustaining staff recruitment. Yes, there are some cadets that are more than ready to take a staff role at 18, but no one should be penalised for just wanting to take the opportunities the Corps provides.
Sorry I mis wrote what I meant
The people who I referred to that were asked to leave were young CIs you had progressed from cadet to CI but never took on the responsibility being a Member of staff
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My thoughts (which I had to share with my OC, as I’m not important enough to be actually asked):
My ideal would be for a genuine third way, in which they are treated as neither cadets nor 100% staff members - with plenty of development opportunities available. One thing that did pop in to my head would be whether any integration with UAS activities would be possible. Lets not have 18 year old corporals though, what’s wrong with starting at AC?
My worry though is that it will be a simple staff vs cadet binary option, in which we’ll lose all the good stuff for o18s and expect it all to be work, work, work. I’ve always felt that the Corps is pretty poor at any sort of real staff development - anything we do is expected to be for the ‘direct’ benefit of cadets rather than development for its own sake.
If that is the actual choice, then keep things as they are.
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I’ll proably get lynched for this, but…
How about for cadets transitioning to staff
AC for 12 months
LAC for 12 months
SAC for 2 years (at which time decide on NCO or Officer route)
Cpl for 4 years then Sgt/FS/WO as current.
or APO, Plt Off, Fg Off, Flt Lt as current
For those over 21 CI for 12 months then decide on NCO/Officer route.
At each promotion stage there should be mandatory training to complete.
Just my thoughts but appreciate won’t sit well with some.
Pretty much my plan.
My thoughts were AC until completion of an initial course (probably AVIP with a bit of uniform and drill).
LAC for one year.
SAC thereafter. As an SAC they can apply for promotion to corporal or for a commission, and would stay as an SAC until completing the course at RAFC.
Pretty much what the Aussies do:
[quote=“Moist_Van_Lipwig, post:115, topic:4978”]
The organisation used to let 21 year olds be “just be cadets” with no legislative expectation of some “value” for the Corps, and the world didn’t implode… [/quote]
agreed - but times have changed on what is expected of O18 Cadets and their responsibilities as adults.
also agreed - but when participating in the scheme that is seperate to being a CFAV
by turning 18 they become adults - thus have adult responsibility
i don’t believe Cadets can refuse their legal responsibility
yes - and wear a uniform which is Cadet not CFAV - the faults in the system are numerous and varied
I cant see the responses for the survey any more only mine.