OC Survey on SharePoint - Keep Staff Cadets or Not

We as an organisation have changed what is expected of 18+ cadets. Therefore, we can change it again. Expecting them to put something back is entirely due to HQAC trying to get instructors on the cheap, and try and weed out cadets who take the opportunities we offer, then move on. In my opinion, this is completely wrong. We should offer opportunities with no expectation of payback from the cadets.

Specifically, what legal responsibilities does a cadet take on when they turn 18??

1 Like

the same ones all CFAVs have…

Staff Cadets currently opt to sign a separate declaration if they are happy to act as escorts on trips. It is implicit for CFAV but in reality it is optional for all of us.

Same here! What a shame - it was quite interesting reading other people’s view points.

But only if they agree to act as the activity Commander for an event. Otherwise, they hold exactly the same status as other cadets. They don’t suddenly become responsible for other cadets just because they’ve hit 18.

You might say that over 18s have a moral obligation to look after under the 18s, but it’s not a legal obligation.

Do we ask that of people coming into the organisation?
As CIs people are able to choose exactly what, where, when and how they do things. But as cadets the ATC bullies cadets into something that they wouldn’t get away with when in comes to CIs. Why should be expect more of a cadet, just because the ATC has allowed them to stay in the organisation.
Take the view you suggest of turn up, step up or out with someone who is not a cadet and expect a smack or being told to rotate. You could get away with it with a cadet as they still regard you as a member of staff and don’t realise they are members of staff and can just tell you to poke it.
It seems you are prepared to take advantage of their naïvete in a way that wouldn’t happen anywhere else.

That was me that was. As a Staff Cadet CWO, I turned up did some lessons, helped out a bit with things and the normal cadet things, but at no point did I feel forced or obliged to do more, as ultimately I was at 21 still a cadet. I did my last AEF 4 months before I aged out.

2 Likes

Nope - ACC raised it for me.

Big nope.

Anyone know what is the least popular option is on the Survey?

That’s the one the HQ want… It will be the one implemented!!

God knows what notice they’ll take but it would be interesting if the result was stop cadet service at 18, as many people want to keep it at 20, but not for the benefit of those staying on, but to try and persuade them to become uniformed staff. If the route was Ci only for a minimum 3 years, it wouldn’t be so bad.

What is the fascination with the uniform structure?
Is this to benefit the cadet? Or, is it the need to keep these young adults under the cosh as god help us if they were allowed self determination that goes with not being in a uniform.
Why differentiate between for 21+, but seemingly expecting them to go into uniform?

Going into uniformed service must never be a compulsory element of volunteering to help in a youth organisation, well unless you’re in 1930s Germany of course.

not me - this is not my policy.

we shouldnt need to - those people are already adults and understand Adult responsibility

agreed - but that doesn’t excuse them of their adult and moral responsibility

bullies?
if deemed of value to the Squadron invites them to stay on, giving them the option - take the “your now an adult and have the following responsibilities course” or bow out

i don’t see it as more as a Cadet - but why would the courts expect less of them as an Adult, just because they hold a valid F3822?

and in doing so they are not meeting the organisation’s expectations for adults and therefore would be asked to leave - just as any other CI would for not completing a DBS form, or attending the BASIC course

The issue I have with this stance, is that it is only applied to cadets.

If every prospective member of staff was told that they must have a skill to add “value” to the Corps, then we would be turning away a heck of a lot of people. Yet we expect that of our 18+ cadets. I’m not talking about the AVIP, DBS etc.

@Teflon is correct - HQAC demand things of the cadets because they know that they are conditioned to do what is asked by a higher rank.

Plus, “added value” is very much subjective - Sqn A might demand MOI, Silver First Aid, Bronze comms, and a food handling cert, while Sqn B might think that just having a DBS adult around is enough

What happens if they promise the earth and deliver nothing? We can’t dismiss them. It’s a pointless policy.

What possible scenario are you thinking of, that a cadet will end up in court solely because they happen to be over 18?

I appreciate that saying this will envoke some levels of fury, but that is actually what we’re having to do…

We’re in the extremely fortunate position of having a good number of staff - currently 3x uniformed, 6x CI (2 going into uniform, 2 recent ex-cdts) - and we’ve recently had 2/3 others express interest in joining as CIs. We’re at the point where we actively have to ask them what skills they have to offer us that we don’t already have. We don’t have the space for a lot of staff.

again not me - this is not my policy

Do think Regards rank structure CFAV service prior to uniformed CFAV service should count in promotion matrix.

Ie if CI for 7/8 years this should be recognised in uniformed CFAV service. And promotion matrix

the best answer? it depends…

if your CI service was effectively as a warm body to allow boxes to be ticked, or was ‘siloed’ in one thing - radio/ aircraft rec/whatever - then not (imv), but if you’ve spent 8 years as a CI who has done the TO and/or Adj roles and done lots of running/organising activities and stuff on the Sqn, then yes, definately - it would seem perverse to ignore that skill/experience and put that individual on the same track at the same speed as someone who walked off the street with no experience.

when SNCO’s commission in the forces after a long career they don’t get commissioned as 2Lt’s, they commission as Captains and they’ll be Majors in the blink of an eye…

It is no one’s policy. Staff cadets don’t suddenly assume legal responsibility for under 18 cadets, just because they’ve turned 18.

They can choose (or not) to take the same responsibility we do by agreeing to act as a supervisor, or activity commander.

The issue of how to treat our staff cadets is an internal policy only.

As adults working in the organisation, they kind of do.

But they’re not working. They are taking part in an activity that the ATC provides. As soon as they take a role - first aider, planning officer, activity commander et al, then they assume responsibility. Until then, they are as legally liable for young people as my Auntie Sue.

then why highlight there responsibility via a AVIP course?

why bring to their attention the child protection and safeguarding responsibilities to their attention they as Adults are equally responsible for as adults if they are not indeed responsible??

turning 18 regardless of where someone is in the organisation means that persons from that point on has a adult responsibility of those children they work with and alongside.

if little johnny goes to FS Harris a 17 year old - with a child protection issue or safeguarding concern that 17 yr old doesn’t have to do anything about it
if little johnny waits a week later and goes to FS Harris the now 18 yr old (and adult having had their birthday over the weekend) that 18 yr old is duty bound to take appropriate action.

regardless of if they are taking part passively or picking up a “active” role such as the nominated First Aider or a planning officer or otherwise - they must act with the legal responsibility the law says they have as an adult - they cannot opt out of those responsibilities.

and why it is more than just a box ticking “offering value to the unit” that is required for service after 18 - the OC needs to have confidence in the individuals maturity is ready for the legal responsibility that person will have at 18 that they wont at 17 and why the RAFAC use of 18 years olds has been such a controversial issue in the recent years - we are the only ones who dress up Adults as Cadets - why should that be allowed to continue just be “thats the way we’ve always done it” (see Service until 22).