There are continued discussions being had about the role and position of staff cadets, don’t worry. But at the end of the day whilst they remain cadets and continue participating in courses and events in a cadet capacity the organisation maintains a duty of care towards them. That means we have to ensure their safety and wellbeing and thus regulations like these must apply to them also.
You know we have a duty of care towards CFAVs too, right?
2 Likes
fair point, I’ll admit I’m essentially parroting what I’ve been told by more informed individuals than myself, but I assume the responsibilities towards CFAVs and cadets are somewhat different, and staff cadets fall into the latter category.
We very much do not need a rehash of the same old ‘Is it totalitarianism to tell staff they can’t do something?’ debate.
Playing devil’s advocate here but:
Why?
Cos we’re not the Armed Forces we’re a sponsored youth organisation.
Using that reason is a dangerous position as it could become a case of “would you jump off a cloff just cos the MOD do it” (to paraphrase all Mum’s when their son says yeah but Johnny does it)
Its the right decision but i disagree that for that specific reason alone
4 Likes
We’re not just a sponsored youth organisation, we are a uniformed cadet services paid for, ran by and regulated by the armed forces. To suggest that MOD policy shouldn’t (or doesn’t) influence us is just incorrect.
And the pint I was making was that when they are attending on a Staff Capacity then we should have the common sense to treat them as we do Staff.
Now the simple solution is just to do away with Staff Cadets completely but in the absence of that common-sense decision then the organisation should treat them as the adults that they are.
It’s not like the MOD has a “no alcohol” policy for UAS students who may well be at University with our Staff Cadets.
2 Likes
Getting rid of staff cadets has been essentially rules out as they are an incredibly valuable resource, and removing the ability for them to act in a cadet capacity would remove the incentive for many to stay in the organisation, being able to do high level courses like ACPS, QAIC, JL etc is a strong reason many continue their service. Equally this means they have to continue being “ordinary” cadets to enable them to attend these courses.
With that in mind what would your solution be? (Genuinely interested as this is something that a change might be coming to soon…)
Allow 18-22 year old staff to do those sort of activities. Then make it so you become staff at 18.
But let’s not start the staff cadet debate in this thread. That has many threads of is own already…
Freudian…
3 Likes
If you regulate the (legal) behaviour of adults ‘off duty’ on a residential camp, then they are implicitly not ‘off duty’. At which point all sorts of other problems emerge.
Create a proper duty rota, and let the others be properly off duty. Applies on RAF station camps, too.
4 Likes
Doh!!
Has anyone actually done any real research into this? Or have they just asked Cadets on those sort of courses?
Adjust the Policy so that where Staff Cadets are on an Activity as a member of Staff that the same rules apply to them as to the Staff. Not just for things like drinking but accross the board with things like claiming mileage.
I’m running a Camp soon where my ic females is a Staff Cadet.
I’ve run AT camps in the past where we could only offer climbing because a Staff Cadet came back from Uni to help us deliver the activity. If he was a member of staff he could’ve claimed his mileage. If he hadn’t given up his time to help up he would’ve been in the pub with his mates.
The Organisation was more than willing to use his skills and qualifications but it insists that we treat him the same as 13 year old off duty, it’s quite simply ridiculous.
7 Likes
Not wanting to go down the staff cadet rabbit hole but…
Once you hit 18 you can do all sorts of jobs & responsibilities. You can be CFAV in another cadet force, you can be a councillor or MP. You can even be an attested Constable or special constable.
In effect you could have a staff cadet who has the power of arrest being told that they cannot do activities they are legally entitled to as an adult as they are “not mature”. This is despite the fact that another organisation consider them mature enough to pick up body parts from rail tracks, deal with a domestic violence or a rape. It is not inconceivable that a staff could cadet could nick an adult CFAV for a legal reason (would be interesting to see a staff cadet seize & have towed lol away a Sqn SOV due to an expired permit 19).
I don’t have an issue with the policy as written in general terms but it is just a culture change that is needed. It’s the application to staff cadets where things be one really problematic due to Staff cadet reasons.
It will then be this inconsistency that undermines the policy & means that people will not comply (& get in the habit of not doing so).
An undermined policy will then result in harsher policies when there an incident & the policy is in breach, which in turn cannot be implement which leads to …& you know the rest.
3 Likes
Also, I have found recently that the new policy on staff cadets means that good people are being kicked out at 18 because they don’t meet the criteria in ACP 20, thus losing staff effectively. I’ve got a 17.5 year old cadet at the moment who might be in this category. They are a great, mature person, and essentially help me run the squadron! But they don’t have any ‘specific qualifications’. IE no MOI or AFA yet. Given Covid, and they fact they work at weekends, they’ve not have the time/opportunity to go and get qualifications. Because of this, I’m struggling to get them permission to stay past 18. Even though them leaving will be detrimental to the squadron.
2 Likes
couldn’t agree more.
I am off to Nijmegen next week.
18 year old UAS student called an officer cadet allowed alcohol
18 year old member of the RAFAC called a staff cadet not allowed a beer
Officer cadet just a team member
Staff cadet 2IC of a team
Why is that?
9 Likes
And that’s actually enforced? Drinking age is 16 in the Netherlands so the entire team went out for a beer when I went.
drinking age in the Netherlands is now 18
1 Like
I have had similar problems where my 17.5 cadet is busy working and college studies so hasnt been able to commit yet to many qualifications but is a great asset on the unit with their maturity they are instrumental in supporting the CFAV with developing the younger cadets, unfortunately the 'Powers at be" want Staff Cadets to be minumum of Sgt !
Sounds like yet another case of empire building to me