Well its only specifies drinking of alcoholic drinks, so take that as you will
Verborten. I saw a Twitter post about using alcohol free gin and tonic. Etc
Worth asking the Q through the echelons
If you ask the question on alcohol free someone will over think & play it safe.
You can get an alcohol free port but itâs tricky.you might be able to get a relaxation for the loyal toast but it will complicate your paperwork.
If itâs alcohol-free then itâs just coloured flavoured water.
Iâll be honest, Iâm finding this thread bizarre.
The ACO has decided - I think rightly - that alcohol, and the fetishisation of alcohol as a necessary social/personal lubricant, has no place in an organisation thatâs about children learning about responsibility for self and others, role models, flying, shooting, and AT.
Thatâs it.
âfakeâ alcholic drinks are as much a bastion of the fetishism as a real one - this vacuous idea that itâs not really a loyal toast if youâre not using port, so you have you use something that looks like port massively contributes to an idea that booze is âthe real stuffâ, that anything else is a half measure (see, it even gets into the languageâŚ?), and youâre telling this to children.
I genuinely think that if you canât enjoy yourself in an evening of chat and jokes with friends and colleagues, or to give a real affirmation of loyalty to the Monarch, without alcohol in your hand (or something that looks like alcohol, so you can pretend that itâs alcohol), then your first port of call shouldnât be this thread, it should be your GP.
I have given a loyal toast with tepid water that tasted of puritabs, with tea (that tasted of puritabs), and cans of coke that were as hot as the tea - none of that was less than a toast with port, or beer, or whiskey.
12 Likes
Like skimmed milk is just water pretending to be milk
2 Likes
Hi @angus.
Just asking a question.
Iâm normally the sober one, as im the driver.
Just thinking ahead to possible activities next year.
2 Likes
I disagree with this bit,
I do like the taste of various wines & beers - itâs not about the alcohol & I quite enjoy drinking the low alcohol & alcohol free versions - far better than the bland range of soft drinks thereâs is.
I would argue that the alcohol frees are probably healthier for you than the cokes & fantas due to the sugar content, adatives & the flavours naff with a good meal.
agree with this bit, you dont need to have port or something that looks like port for the loyal toast just a port substitute & in the tradition of dinners something thatâs different to whatâs on offer adds to the experience. It doesnât have to be the same, itâs just got to deliver the same or very similar results e.g. liquid shoe polish for boots vs bulling with kiwi vs using cherry blossom.
At the end of the day everything we do with cadets is a âfakeâ simulation of the military. As otherwise we are fetishising the military & teaching kids to kill & murder for the greater good or an ideology.
Alcohol is prevalent in society & it is a well needed social lubricant. The majority of volunteers in CFAVs treat each other as colleagues & not friends. We need that lubricant as otherwise we would end up punching one another. Around cadets we should not have alcohol, particularly from those in a position of trust.
I have no problem with alcohol free placebo at dinners as it shows that you can have the ceremony without the alcohol & itâs still good. It normalises for the cadets that alcohol free is also a grown up drink.
But I donât want to be at a dinner where Iâm sat there with a choice of water, naff squash or chemical tasting pop - I might as well go to a wacky warehouse.
3 Likes
Many years ago I had a role that required I was frequently available at short notice outside normal duty times. Obviously this was covered on a rota basis, but you were still liable to be called when not notified for duty. Hint, it required two people to be present when carrying out any associated actions.
Clearly one had to be fit to drive in order to respond to a call, but given the responsibility the duty holders had, it was clearly understood that we avoided any alcohol consumption during our on call periods. This could be a couple of days or as long as a week.
Now, I was never a big drinker, although I did enjoy a pint occasionally, but these periods of enforced abstinence made me reassess the part that alcohol played . I had noticed that I tended not to imbibe during the periods between being on call. My conclusion was that alcohol merely got in the way of life.
exmpa
2 Likes
Sorry that is complete rubbish, drinking excessively to a state that you cannot be responsible yes totally agree, 1 glass of port for a toast totally acceptable. It is NOT the RAFAC role to dictate to anyone whether alchohol is a social caste. Next missive will be that we will be forced to drink water as soft drinks are bad for our teeth and wow betide that rafac will be responsible for bad teeth.
6 Likes
I could read that two ways, but get your point , enough said
1 Like
Duty officers and NCOs or those who donât drink are served water at dining in nights for the Loyal toast.
I used to work a week on week off or would by flying next day in another life, so no booze, even though I was not liable for testing, days off were different though. Abnormal Liver function test and GP said no booze for 6 months, which wasnât a problem, retested still the same result.
These days I very rarely drink at home alone and when I do, it is normally in the company of SWMBO. Thankfully we donât live together even after 14 years together this year @AlexCorbin take note.
@exmpa very happy you didnât play with âthingsâ when having a hangover. 
You make some really good points, and I donât disagree with you on any of your points.
But also, wasnât the reason why this ban came into force due to adults being âin drinkâ around teenagers, which lead to some poor decision making and ended up with safeguarding reports?
Remove the alcoholic element, and you (hopefully) remove the bad decision making, and the safeguarding issues.
That means (in my book), that there should be no issues with alcohol free versions of port, beer, gin etc.
6 Likes
Spot on
1 Like
I debriefed a cadet who was on this yearâs IACE about the above, and they were told by their escorting staff,
âWhat goes on tour, stays on tour!â
Ring ring
Hello, HQAC safeguarding red flags team, how can we assist you?
4 Likes
Snitches get stitchesâŚbut this attitude irritates me and is the reason we cant have nice things in this org anymore. It breaks the trust.
6 Likes
Partly agree, but then thatâs also the consequence of poorly planned and written policy.
8 Likes