But my understanding of the new policy is essentially there is to be no booze unless it is a staff only event. Even if you are ‘off duty’. Why is this different for RIAT?
Let me be clear, my issue here is the different application/interpretation of the same policy.
Check para 9-11
That has a by exception clause, which implies it’s not for each and every event. ie if you were attending a special function somewhere maybe? As para 9 actually allows you to drink in front of cadets, so long as supervision ratios are met. But it’s to be the exception, not the rule. What makes RIAT meet this exception?
RIAT IS ALWAYS THE EXCEPTION!
Para 9 does do that, I hadn’t noticed as didn’t do the checking as to what 4c to f was (4b being “in presence of cadets” - I’d expected that to be included).
But 4b doesn’t apply here anyway.
The key components are “off duty” and “provided ratios are met”.
So if there are on site facilities and/or HoE authorisation (and CoC as it would be detailed on your SMS application within your AO) then alcohol is still permitted on activities where the above criteria can be met.
So if you have 100 cadets and 10 staff, none can drink; but if you have 100 cadets and 30 staff, 20 can drink provided they have finished their duty, it’s not within 8 hours of their next duty, and is in moderation.
There would be far fewer words in the policy to say “No alcohol at RAFAC events with cadets in attendance”.
Got to admit that I hadn’t registered the the “by exception” bit.
I don’t have the policy to hand so unless there is more detail than that in the policy I would treat every camp I run as being “by exception” and I would continue to treat my adult staff as adults. (When I’m a Camp Com I tend to not drink anyway and if I do it’s a 2 beer limit).
If it were to suddenly be enforced that all camps are now dry irrespective of ratios, I won’t be doing another residential activity, not because I can’t go a week without a drink but because I refuse to be treated as a child.
I agree with what you’re both saying, and indeed agree that is what the rules should be. But I really don’t believe that is what this change in policy is doing/saying. It is essentially saying that in the majority of cases, any event that has cadets in attendance should be dry. By exception, and if authorised by OF-5 then you can have some alcohol.
Down here we’ve had booze banned from cadet events since pre covid!
I took the “by exception” to mean “the following list is examples of when alcohol can be consumed”, considering the rest of the policy is explicit in when it can’t be.
RIAT, Camps, etc fall squarely into 9 and 11 by default, surely.
ISCRM was totally dry - altho not for the ACF and SCC CFAVS…
Interesting. We came across some SCC a few years ago who were shocked that we weren’t dry. Geographic and CoC dependent, perhaps.
Yeah so did I.
Didn’t the policy say it was to bring us into line with everyone else?
All… hail… RIAT…
Riat
Riat
Riat
Riat
Absoute joke.
Hopefully exemptions for dining in nights are next.
Thats cos we ‘air’ innit, and they do the ‘wet’ (sea) bit…
When they’re specifically called out? No.
I know RIAT became in vogue to rag on, especially after last year, but I’m not sure why this is being made into such an issue by stretching what is actually in the policy to justify criticism.
Because for some of us, this policy is being interpreted at a local level to mean all cadet activities should be dry, with only a few exceptions.
Raise it via VoP, highlight the morale element.
Local policy needs burning with fire.
That’s not a reason to rag on an event that isn’t adhering to that. Do as @themajor says.
We’ve had reasonable scale events that haven’t had a zero alcohol policy since this was introduced.
Which is the way it should be, you run on minimum staffing you are dry, you have extra staff overnight you can have a beer, but don’t get silly.
I always run a double size duty team, because if someone has to go off to hospital etc you need to have staff left.
I have always insisted that staff do not drink in front of cadets.
I’ve never felt the need to go that far, as long as staff weren’t drunk in front of Cadets.
Lots of venues on DTE have mixed social areas and as long as staff are drinking in moderation I didn’t see that there is any issue with staff drinking in front of Cadets. This new policy puts the kybosh on that so it will be a slab of lager in one of the rooms instead.
Although I’m sure some people will go the other way and just ban Cadets from the mess in the basis that they will see people (non-ATC staff) drinking.