Heard that squadrons can now create their own badge for mtp. Thoughts?
if for MTP why not for DPM?
i heard the rumour⌠then sent an email to OC Wing and WWO only to be told its not policy yet and guidelines yet to come out.
Interesting⌠Years ago I remember one sqn who issued a subdued version of their sqn crest to their left arm (in a similar position to the DZ Patch/TRF). Though I believe that to be illegal âlocalâ ruling at the timeâŚ
I wonder if the powers to be would allow subdued sqn crests to be worn or something similar!
It is drifting in that direction, but there is talk about ensuring that badges are approved and included in a central register.
The rules would seem to allow it already but there is little control.
Wouldnât life just be simpler and easier all round if they just issued OG versions of the ATC identifier and Sqn number badge to put on the PCS blanking plate, then weâd have exactly the same insignia on MTP as on blue. Itâd also serve to identify us as air cadets thus thereâd be no need for a new TRF, etc and we could tell what unit a cadet is in wearing either uniform type.
Not sure what the answer would be for DPM, but thatâll cease to be a problem eventually anyway.
So much for cost saving thoughâŚ
If they would go that far - and to throw it out there - what about First Aid? (Mentioned on the forums already), heck - why not Marksman?
The idea is that we allow squadrons to get their own badge and build up some esprit-de-corps for their units if they wish to, while trying to maintain some level of control over the image they portray (no skulls, no dripping daggers, no stealing images from regular units etc.)
I agree, it can be a good thing to roll out to build up esprit-de-corps; it would be interesting to see what rules/guidelines are put in place then, and what the âapprovalâ process would be for anything other than the unitâs crest (which should already be approved?)
Here in Kent Iâm not sure if any squadrons already do this but thereâs one in London wing I know if thereâs one and they use the image in the centre of their crest
would it not be simpler to have a âWingâ badge, much like fir has mentioned based on the centre of the badge?
for those Sqns without a specific badge it becomes a case of âhave and have notsâ and i can imagine some staff getting in a twist about badges being added when their Cadets donâtâŚ
Nobody gives a damn about wing badges except wings. Maybe have a generic ATC or CCF badge for those without a unit badge and let the squadrons who want to get a unit badge go ahead and get one.
Personally Iâd be happy if we just didnât bother.
We already have a generic atc badge.
I think just a Sqn number like MattB said would be the best way. You already know the Sqn numbers in the wing so it would be easier to identify, but the badge designed by the Sqn would more personal to the cadets and staff at the Sqn
a green/tan ATC identifier - the same as the blue one on the brazzard, just different colours - would be the easiest, cheapest, quickest option.
personally i would like to see a new, well thought out TRF, but i see no point whatsoever even giving it any thought unless everyone in, or part of, or attached to, the ACO is going to wear it. espirit de corps does not mean wearing a better looking badge than the people you lead just because the rules say you canâŚ
the argument that because VR(T), SNCO(ATC) and Cadets should wear different TRFâs because they are from different organisations is, frankly, utter bilge. obviously they are less august, but 3 Cdo Bde, 16AA Bde and the SFSG somehow live with the collective shame and wear just one TRF for each despite coming from not just different Regiments and Corps, but different services.
Some reality checks here, please.
Firstly, is someone able to give a convincing explanation as to why it would make sense to wear low-visibility tactical-camouflaged formation badges, on No3 dress in the first place? Whether they be for Rgn/ Wg/Sqn or specialised Corps group?
The TRF is full colour. The Union Flag is full colour. Rank badges, as to be worn in the ACO are to be full colour, and the staff branch identifiers are required to be (currently) shiny gold anodised metal. The wearing of RAF stable belts (full colour) is encouraged when No3s are worn as barrack dress.
So the reason for the low-contrast super-secret badges would, again, be exactly what? (It may also be informative to note that our Air Cadets comrades in the massive United States Civil Air Patrol wear full-colour badges on their greens for all purposes, effectively mirroring what is worn on flying coveralls).
Iâm interested to hear the reasoning behind identification badges that are deliberately designed to be difficult to see. This is not sarcasm, itâs genuine puzzlement (also a reminder that the regular RAF until recently wore full-colour EAW patches on classic DPMs, similarly, coloured brevets/para wings, certain formation & specialism badges)
Willing to hear the reasoning, curious as to what itâll beâŚ
wilf_san
[quote=âwilf_sanâ post=24062]
wilf_san[/quote]
Hi Wilf,
Not really answering your question, but a titbit that might interest youâŚ
Squadron TRFs are common with auggie and regular Regiment squadrons, replacing the full colour RAF one, and there used to be a generic Regt one for chaps posted off field squadrons, although this now has to be worn on the left arm in addition to the RAF flash on the right (in fact, that may apply for the sqn ones now, but I would have to check).
When I signed up, my squadron wore a subdued version of the centre of the squadron badge (black on olive green) as a TRF on CS95 smocks and shirts. The squadron was stood down and we were reformed into a new numberplate (following the 2XXX format for RAuxAF Regt rather than using an historical number) at the same time as PCS was introduced and the generic Regt TRF was moved to the left arm. It was encouraged but optional and could only be worn by the chaps who had passed all their training and were gunners rather than support arms too, so was never going to be as popular.
The loss of the history and esprit de corps was one of the things that made me bin part time blue suit wearing when the rest of my life went mammaries vertical, but since then, my original squadron has stood up again as a logistics unit⌠which wears a coloured version (mostly white and red on olive green) of the old TRF on the left arm in addition to the RAF flash on the right.
From browsing around CAPTALK, complaining about their coloured badges seems to be a favourite topic (along with arguing about about sinking submarines)⌠but CAP has a totally different history and role. Their cadet programme is a part of what they do, which is primarily Civil Defence, support to emergency services and SAR (as you already know, Wilf, but others might not). They donât really seem to âdoâ fieldcraft or military skills and massive shiny badges make sense for identifying yourself to the Sherriffâs Dept, American Red Cross, Fire Dept and all the other people who might be looking for a light aircraft down in the Jersey Pine BarrensâŚ
Anyway⌠I thought sqn TRFs in the ATC had been allowed since Noah was a boy? They just arenât very commonâŚ
The argument about whether we can wear Squadron TRFs under current regs was done to death when it was revealed Wokkaman wears his unitâs on a regular basis.
I agree with Wilf, i never saw the point of a subdued TRF. The R stands for recognition, and the Cadet one is not recognisable from a distance. More importantly, itâs lame.
In response to the argument about wearing three different badges within the same organisation, the reasoning for that is historical. IIRC the Cadet one was due to be rolled out for cadets and adult ATC staff but someone on here managed to get teh current one in front of Air Cdre Moulds before the roll out and saved the SNCOs from that particular fate. I like the SNCO one, I wouldnât mind the cadets wearing that as well.
As for the VRT and ATC wearing the same badges, that happens currently. Our TRFs mark out our branch, but units already wear unit badges, such as the SATTS, I would anticipate that any change to the regs would enable us all to wear unit badges on the left arm and the branch TRF on the right. As the SATT staff do currently. (Why should they be so special?) What we need is a process for applying for them to be approved then a list somewhere where they can all be looked up.
Where is this coming from? Any regs to back it up?
AFAIK thatâs the plan being considered.
The ânew badgesâ will not be TRFs worn on the right arm, they will be âUnit Badgesâ worn on the left.
As has been said, SATTs and the CTT already have authorised unit badges so whatâs being considered is extending the authorisation process to Sqns.
Everyone will continue to wear the RAF TRF or SCNO/Cadet Formation Badges as appropriate.
Any update with this? I still see some Sqnâs with⌠most withoutâŚ