Right, when can we expect a syllabus to be issued? Basically, our SATT are still stopping us shooting from other positions until a syllabus is issued.
Naturally this grates a little as other Wings are just getting on with it and there are perfectly good shoots sat in the AOSP just waiting to be used.
Anyone got any intel? ACOCTT?
it is funny you mention this as we (group of shooting buddies and i) were discussing this on the weekend.
As i understand it we have been instructed to teach multi-positional, we are permitted to shoot multi-positional however RCOs havent been given any range practises to adopt for such a multi-positional shooting to occur?
i have also heard that Cadets are not going to be allowed to shoot (the L98A2) “unsupported” standing up (ie situations outside of a firing pit where their elbows should be supported on the edge) due to the recoil running a risk of causing lower back pain…
Policy letter on Bader -> ACO Shooting Documents -> CADETS FIRING FROM OTHER POSITIONS LFMT dated 05 Sep 2013.
https://sharepoint.bader.mod.uk/QM/ACO%20Shooting%20Documents/Forms/AllItems.aspx
There is a mention of Cadet Shooting Syllabus/SR/LR course folders … also mentioned in subsequent para 2 - SHORT RANGE (SR) AND LONG RANGE (LR) COURSE FOLDERS - & para 3 - SATT/CTT DEVELOPMENT PROCESS - which might be limiting factors depending on the stated requirements (e.g. SAAI involvement in Rifle Lesson 8).
I think you will need to read the letter to see how your circumstances fit in.
[quote=“steve679” post=15320]As i understand it we have been instructed to teach multi-positional, we are permitted to shoot multi-positional however RCOs havent been given any range practises to adopt for such a multi-positional shooting to occur?[/quote]My region has banned it entirely.
[quote=“steve679” post=15320]i have also heard that Cadets are not going to be allowed to shoot (the L98A2) “unsupported” standing up (ie situations outside of a firing pit where their elbows should be supported on the edge) due to the recoil running a risk of causing lower back pain…[/quote]That sounds like a steaming pile of nonsense. I was clay shooting with 12-bore at age 14 far more regularly than most of our L98 firers with not even a twinge.
[quote=“steve679” post=15320]
i have also heard that Cadets are not going to be allowed to shoot (the L98A2) “unsupported” standing up (ie situations outside of a firing pit where their elbows should be supported on the edge) due to the recoil running a risk of causing lower back pain…[/quote]
I have no idea about the back pain part (always dubious when the back is mentioned!), however cadets are not permitted to fire in the standing position during LFMT. Use of the fire trench is permitted if written in to the syllabus.
The problem being, we don’t have a syllabus. We have a load of competitions designed to be fired from the prone position (air rifle excepted).
Hence we can’t shoot until we have a syllabus (apparently).
Why we can’t just take some practices from the AOSP Stage 1-3, which are designed to be progressive, I have no idea.
which bit?
teaching/instructing or the shooting?
to be fair the ban isn’t necessary (as is the point of this thread) as there is no approved range practise to use
I didn’t say it was right or I agreed with it - simply what I heard
there seems to be little logic in it, Cadets can play rugby which has far greater physical risks than firing 10rds standing up
Is this due to a lack of syllabus or just because your RC feels like banning it?
Completely agree but this would appear to be another example of this fine organization of ours wrapping the kids in cotton wool and bubblewrap…
So then, as a holder of the SA(B)90 qualification, can I now put cadets through a multi-positional shoot such as an IBSR on a Stage III range (less the standing position) or would that be [I]verboten?[/I]?
Is this due to a lack of syllabus or just because your RC feels like banning it?[/quote]
OC ScotSATT failed to elaborate, but it covers teaching and using.
the cadet must have received the SAA lesson 8 from a instructor prior to firing in the appropriate position. a lesson which was previously not required since we weren’t allowed to in the past, but since the updated PAM 5 it is a mandatory lesson.
Rifle Lesson 8 is an easy (& understandable) parameter to pull out of the policy letter. What is the deal with the requirement for the up-dated Course Folders SR/LR? I presume that is just for instructional aspects for students doing the SR & LR RCO cses?
Is this due to a lack of syllabus or just because your RC feels like banning it?[/quote]
OC ScotSATT failed to elaborate, but it covers teaching and using.[/quote]So they’ve banned a mandatory lesson? :ohmy:
incubus wrote:
Gunner wrote:
incubus wrote:
My region has banned it entirely
Is this due to a lack of syllabus or just because your RC feels like banning it?
OC ScotSATT failed to elaborate, but it covers teaching and using.
So they’ve banned a mandatory lesson? :ohmy:
seems like it, i would come back with no shooting or training on the L98A2. Since lessons 1-10 is now mandatory (haven’t got PAM handy to check) and we can’t skip them, then what is the point in training them if you can not complete the training programme in order to pass the WHT and subsequently fire the weapon. for those who maybe are still in date, all it would take is 10-20 mins explaining the 2 new positions which we are most likely to fire, bit of practice and off you go, again delivered by a SAAI.
1-9 are the lessons required before taking a WHT.
thanks, i knew someone would know off the top of their head B)
We aren’t currently required to teach lesson 8 before taking a WHT.
Unless any exclusion via HQ AC, latest PAM5c states:
Available via here:
https://sharepoint.bader.mod.uk/QM/ACO%20Shooting%20Documents/Forms/AllItems.aspx
It should be pointed out that Talon is ACF, so different guidance may apply.
But in the ATC firing from other positions is a lesson which IS TO BE TAUGHT before a WHT can be carried out.
So it can’t really be banned!
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[quote=“MattB” post=15376]It should be pointed out that Talon is ACF, so different guidance may apply.
[/quote]
Hence why I said “we”. 
We aren’t required to teach it, but we can if we want. I believe our syllabus will be changed to include it at 1 star level - it is currently 2 star.