The ‘Navy PCS’ you all refer to is/was being triled by the Royal Navy
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Latest-News/2012/March/19/120319-Daring-Uniform
Baldrick The scrim strips you refer to I’m told are now mandatory and I believe issued as part of the helmet cover.
When we were issued PCS we were told to keep hold of our old CS95 to hand back in a bulk load (for use of the likes of cadet forces) when we were ready, the order to do so never came in my time, and AFAIK still hasn’t, instead the old 95 was still being worn for things like battle pt/tabs etc. because the supply of replacement PCS was apparently ‘limited’.
[quote=“rockape3” post=4205]Baldrick The scrim strips you refer to I’m told are now mandatory and I believe issued as part of the helmet cover.
When we were issued PCS we were told to keep hold of our old CS95 to hand back in a bulk load (for use of the likes of cadet forces) when we were ready, the order to do so never came in my time, and AFAIK still hasn’t, instead the old 95 was still being worn for things like battle pt/tabs etc. because the supply of replacement PCS was apparently ‘limited’.[/quote]
I was told by a guy at Honington that you are right, the strips are issued, but not in enough quantity to do a good job. (Or an ally job more likely.) But even those strips must be from the U/S PCS?? (I’ve heard that it doesn’t last as well as the MOD may have hoped…) But your CS95 point is heartening to hear!
“UK para wings yes on the right pannel problem is that gunners are the dutch ones that go above the right breasticle”
Interesting- you are forbidden to wear foreign forces wings unless you are a UK Military parachutist holding full UK operational parachute badge (not the non op badge) from a very very senior WO (RAF Regiment 2 Sqn)and also confirmed by an Army source as a tri service rule.
Why on earth would you wear a Badge from a civilian parachute course on UK uniform? That was what the WO asked?
Baldrick I wouldn’t hold your breath on the 95 front though, as I say, it was still being utilised when I left in Sept to reduce the wear on the PCS, which had to be beyond repair before replacement.
Edit: This was of course a sqn specific policy, I don’t know how other units are handling it, the order to keep hold of it was a generic one though.
I’m dreading the day we’re issued MTP, I think it looks dreadful! Very happy with CS95 for now and since all greens stuff I’ll be doing for the next few years will be in UK woodland, I think it has better functional use than MTP.
You’ve obviously not seen it in the field. It surprised me how good it is.
You’ve obviously not seen it in the field. It surprised me how good it is.[/quote]
I have actually, and was able to make a fair few comparisons due to the fact our directing staff wear MTP and we are still in CS95. I agree it surprised me how effective it was, but I’d still go for CS95, especially at dusk and night, where the lighter features of MTP seem to let it down somewhat. It still works well, but in my opinion CS95 still has it in UK terrain.
Undoubtedly it’s fantastic in theatres such as Afghanistan, where personnel are often moving from sandy terrain to greener fields and woodland.
From what I’ve seen, DPM is better in woodland, MTP is better everywhere else. If I had to pick one uniform for going anywhere (in the UK) it’d be MTP, but DPM is perfectly fine for hiding as it is. I do find it interesting that the MOD hasn’t (AFAIK) kept a stock of DPM aside in case we ever need to fight a war in the jungle.
It’s not the camouflage pattern that’s the issue though. I couldn’t care less whether my uniform is DPM or MTP - what I care about is whether it’s in a decent condition and whether I can get it or not! Let’s face it, the chances of our getting any more CS95 are virtually nil, leaving only commercial sources. There’s still some left in the surplus stores, but that won’t last forever - I’d give it a year.
My unit is pretty well stocked for DPM, but we’re starting to run out of the smaller sizes already. We’re back to issuing the old S94 stuff that was put aside years ago - it’ll do for now, but what are we going to issue when that runs out?
I’m fairly certain I remember reading that the MoD has indeed done exactly that. Whether they actually did in the end, I don’t know.
I’m fairly certain I remember reading that the MoD has indeed done exactly that. Whether they actually did in the end, I don’t know.[/quote]
To continue my camouflage geekery…if you look at proper tropical DPM uniform, it’s actually a hell of a lot lighter than the usual DPM, much closer in shade to (drum roll, please) MTP, in fact.
The logic was that when you’re in the jungle you spend all your time soaking wet from rain, sweat, river crossings, etc and so your clothes end up looking darker…
Saying that, somebody told me that the Jungle School out in Brunei are still wearing DPM in the trees…
I know the feeling of the initial ‘DPM looks so much better’ reaction, though. After a while it reverses itself; I can’t look at DPM now without thinking how old fashioned and Cold War it looks… :lol:
I thought that trops went away when CS95 came in though? I’ve never seen any crazy colours in post '95 kit.
I wouldn’t say that trops are close in colour to MTP either - they’re lighter than temperate, yes - but they’re much greener than MTP which is barely green at all, more of a green-brown-grey transition colour.
I like PCS.
The fit is good. Having tried some on I found that it fit me with my hollow back far better than the equivalent size CS95 ever has. It’s comfortable, and the angled pockets are a logical and helpful step.
I like MTP.
I remember seeing field trials of Multicam years ago and thinking “This pattern is excellent!” I think I actually like MTP even more. From an aesthetic point of view.
[quote=“MattB” post=4234]I thought that trops went away when CS95 came in though? I’ve never seen any crazy colours in post '95 kit.
I wouldn’t say that trops are close in colour to MTP either - they’re lighter than temperate, yes - but they’re much greener than MTP which is barely green at all, more of a green-brown-grey transition colour.[/quote]
I believe they could still be demanded if you were getting posted out to junglie places (Brunei, Belize, Kenya), same as dessies if off to hot sandy places…PCS still operates a similar principle, only the hot weather PCS is issued for both types of hot place…(and now the Army want to issue it as standard…lets not go there…)
One of the complaints about CS95 has always been that it’s too dark and gets almost black when wet. The last issue of CS95 DPM seems to fade really fast, so gets to be decent camouflage quite quickly…
I get your point about green, but I’d still say that brown blends into green better than green blends into brown. Aussie DPCU seems to do well in their Pacific jungles and thats only a bit greener than MTP.
Nope, its clearly geekery! 
[quote=“tango_lima” post=4238][quote=“MattB” post=4234]I thought that trops went away when CS95 came in though? I’ve never seen any crazy colours in post '95 kit.
I wouldn’t say that trops are close in colour to MTP either - they’re lighter than temperate, yes - but they’re much greener than MTP which is barely green at all, more of a green-brown-grey transition colour.[/quote]
I believe they could still be demanded if you were getting posted out to junglie places (Brunei, Belize, Kenya), same as dessies if off to hot sandy places…PCS still operates a similar principle, only the hot weather PCS is issued for both types of hot place…(and now the Army want to issue it as standard…lets not go there…)[/quote]
Isn’t that because the hot weather version is thinner and you can more easily roll the sleeves up? A lot of complaints I’ve heard have been about the untidy nature of the uniform and that everyone wears it differently. I.e. combinations of tucked in/untucked and sleeves up or down. The marines preferring ‘up and in’ and the army ‘down and out’ (Take from those phrases what you will…) With the RAF doing whatever they feel like.
[quote=“Baldrick” post=4242]
Isn’t that because the hot weather version is thinner and you can more easily roll the sleeves up? A lot of complaints I’ve heard have been about the untidy nature of the uniform and that everyone wears it differently. I.e. combinations of tucked in/untucked and sleeves up or down. The marines preferring ‘up and in’ and the army ‘down and out’ (Take from those phrases what you will…) With the RAF doing whatever they feel like.[/quote]
Bingo. The lightweight jacket is supposed to be getting a redesign to be more shirt-like as well.
[quote=“Baldrick” post=4242]
Isn’t that because the hot weather version is thinner and you can more easily roll the sleeves up? A lot of complaints I’ve heard have been about the untidy nature of the uniform and that everyone wears it differently. I.e. combinations of tucked in/untucked and sleeves up or down. The marines preferring ‘up and in’ and the army ‘down and out’ (Take from those phrases what you will…) With the RAF doing whatever they feel like.[/quote]
I think it is slightly thinner (or it could be my imagination), but the main difference is it has been treated with some form of insect repellent. They are actually going to make the temperate version the default version and have that treated with the stuff too - it might actually be a longer lasting repellent, not sure.
With regards to combat jacket (as it says on the label) sleeves, they intend to remove the velcro pockets from the forearms to make for easier rolling. We are looking towards the end of the year for that to come out I think. I am not sure if they are actually going as far as to make it suitable for tucking in as it was designed to be worn loose.
I like PCS as well. I really don’t get all the objections to it that some people have had. For the first time in years we (ACF and CCF(Army) types that is) have been given the latest kit at the same time as the Regs and TA. We should consider ourselves lucky! It is a good, modern, uniform that has been properly designed for the job it is supposed to do.
There are no Deserts left, when MTP first came out ops issue was a mixture of MTP and Desert DPM sets, its now all PCS.
Baldrick is right, Deserts used to be significantly thinner than 95, back in Basra the desert shirts used to wear through in a month or 2 when worn with osprey daily (pre UBACS). The solution was what we now see in the new lightweight PCS, they made the material a little thicker, you can barely tell the difference in brand new sets, once they’ve been washed a few times you can start to see the small squares of material they’re made up of.
As for tropical DPM, a mate of mine did a jungle warfare instructors course about a year and a half ago, they issued him tropical DPM for that.
Talon, the lightweight PCS shirts still have the pointless velcro pockets on the lower sleeve unless thats a relatively new development.
The intention was originally to retain DCC for use if we should end up in primarily sandy places again, where it was better suited than MTP; with MTP becoming the standard pattern for everywhere else.
Has that idea been dumped?