MTP Shirts


#41

Hiya, been lurking for awhile and recently actually joined the forums.

Been reading this post with interest. as a cadet had a CS95 MTP shirt and well it looked so much smarter and it was commented by the cadet that it was more comfy, however they were told that they are not allowed to wear them and need to purchase the correct shirts.

Parents went out and spent more money on MTP kit.

Have just had the cadet ask me why they are not allowed to wear it, when on the JI’s for a camp it states and I quote “PCS/CS95 Lightweight Jacket

How can they not be allowed to wear a certain bit of kit that they have to buy at local squadron level, but when it comes to a WING camp they are allowed to?

I’m as confused around this as the cadet.

Can CS95 MTP shirts be worn or not?


#42

Ultimately if the regulations say no, then the theory is no. However, it would take a proper chump to try and enforce that on something privately bought and which has no bearing on safety.


#43

Several WWOs are now circulating that they can be worn (as of recently) but AP1358c is not yet updated.


#44

Yes, as per the email above.

(Disclaimer - despite the clear instructions to cascade the email, I’ve not actually seen it anywhere except for on here. However, I believe it does really exist!)


#45

The JIs aren’t referring to the CS95 “style” shirts in MTP, by CS95 they are referring to actual DPM CS95 as these and MTP PCS lightweight jackets are both permitted by AP1358c. Both, S95 DPM and MTP PCS are labelled lightweight or warm weather combat jackets.
The “controversial” item is not a lightweight jacket, it’s labelled as “shirt, barrack, MTP” just colloquially called S95 MTP shirt.

All that said, as @mightywhite has pointed out, the shirts are now allowed in their own right. Our most recent wing routine orders referenced this too.


#46

The controversial item (barrack shirt) is of course almost identical to the S95 MTP LW Jacket, so the confusion is understandable.


#47

What are the differences?


#48

if you are talking about the difference between the standard PCS shirt and the barrack shirt, the latter isn’t 50% velcro and doesn’t have pockets everywhere. As a result it is more comfortable and you can roll the sleeves up a whole lot easier.


#49

In style, nil.

As far as I understand it though the barrack shirt is in temperate-weight fabric, whilst the 95 MTP was all tropical.

So it should be a bit thicker and harder-wearing.

And the label is different, of course.


#50

Perhaps RAF Legal read our dress regs and then read the Equality Act and had a minor meltdown?


#51

Ooh, beards coming for non-certain-religious personnel?


#52

I’m already painting my nails!

(With neutral nail polish, of course.)


#53

Indeed, is confusing. Labelling what is a shirt a jacket doesn’t help. Then there’s all the strong but conflicting ideas about tucking and sleeves just to muddy things further. At least there seems to have been an outbreak of pragmatism on high!


#54

It is called a jacket as it was designed to be worn as such, before the pace-stick wielders had a collective coronary.


#55

OK even more confused here.

The jacket/shirt/dress/hat what ever it is in question in my case.

The label says
JACKET,COMBAT
Multi Terrain Pattern (MTP)
8415-99-667-4223
Size Height/Chest
170/96
Contract No:DC2CESL/3129
Name:
No:

So from the comments here I am actually unsure what the actual top is now.

I do however know it is NOT what the CO wants as it isnt covered in velcro.

hhhhmmmmmm


#56

whatever it is, you’re allowed to wear it. if your OC wants you to wear something more specific, ask him to buy it for you…


#57

It’s a CS95 MTP LW Jacket (shirt)


#58

So just had a look at look at AP 1358C and the following

  1. PCS-MTP Authorised Ensemble. When authorised to wear and except where a specific order of dress has been prescribed through the OC Wg / Wg
    Ex O / Sqn Ldr CCF HQAC, only the approved PCS-MTP ensemble, as detailed below, is to be worn…

c. MTP Lightweight Combat Suit (Lightweight Jacket & Trousers). The front rank epaulette is to display blue rank slides as described in para 0225b. ‘In barracks’ the l/w jacket is to be worn tucked into the trousers; due to the limitations of the current design, the sleeves are normally to be worn down. However, where the activity or temperature dictates, sleeves can be rolled up temporarily at the discretion of the individual.

So as the cadet in question has a ‘top’ that states jacket, lightweight and the code also states CS95 MTP LW Jacket (shirt) it CAN be worn.
If it stated Shirt Barracks it cannot.

The cadet will be over the moon as they have 3 of these and in this weather and a field craft weekend coming up, they will be a little cooler :slight_smile:

Just need to point a few other people to the label and the AP assuming I am reading this correctly :wink:

This also makes it easier for me when I go into uniform (Yes I know the comments in regards to WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT) as I think they look smarter and more comfy myself.

Cheers for the help


#59

Check the email posted earlier in the thread.


#60

These are the barrack shirt and the pcs jacket with their respective labels.