I’m increasingly surprised (and somewhat irritated you may be surprised to learn) by the number of supposedly trained cadets who don’t know the correct way to clean the L98A2.
Examples I’ve frequently come across include; simply turning the chamber/barrel extension brush around in a circle, not back and forth as well to make sure the splines are cleaned; not cleaning the face of the bolt and the splines apparently because they aren’t gas affected and so they don’t get dirty and not using ‘scotchbrite’ on any of the parts at all because it’s ‘not allowed’. But by far the greatest occurrence in my experience is totally ignoring cleaning the gas block. The vast majority of cadets I’ve spoken to have never even been shown how to do this, and some have even been told that there isn’t anything to clean it with and that the gas block brush shouldn’t be in the L98 cleaning kit as it’s for the GPMG only!
The thing that really GMG is that all of these cadets have passed their L98A2 WHTs which includes a section on stripping and assembly, and cleaning - so what are our WIs and SAAIs actually teaching the cadets? What are they being tested on? Should the L98A2 WHT actually have a section on stripping and cleaning anyway as the No 8 WHT doesn’t? Should stripping and assembly, and cleaning be an adult staff task only?
i’m not sure what you’re trying to say here.
there is a strip the weapon “as for daily cleaning” as part of the WHT then a selection of questions/instructions to ask either during or after that then reassembly.
should stripping the weapon be an adult task only?
no - The Cadets should have some ownership of their weapon and that should include cleaning it. often we have issued a rifle to a Cadet for the day, it is their responsibility and this should include maintanence.
also with regarding to an aim of the Corps “skills useful for civilian and military life” completing the full 8-12 lessons of the L98A2 and then using it in anger is a useful skill for BASIC/phase 1 training when they get the L85, they are familiar with the weapon system (or its sister anyway) and so a step ahead in terms of training
should cleaning be an adult task only - absolutely not as i quite enjoying going home at the end of the day!
with 18+ Cadets with individual rifles and maybe 4-5 staff on a days shooting (25m barrack range) it would take an age to get all 18 rifles cleaned by the Staff, which i can only presume would be completed after the Cadets have been dismissed.
why dont Cadet know how to clean a rifle? down to the delivery and involvement of Lesson 4, which i find tends to be mixed with Lesson two and then repeated in the correct spot…Cadets hear repeat information and switch off!
Cadets are taught wrong because someone (who doesn’t actually know what he/she is talking about) feeds an instructor a piece of false information and the instructor doesn’t bother to check in the manual, either because they are lazy or because the person who told them it holds a higher rank or authority and therefore ‘must’ be right.
A cadet who then takes a WHT may still pass simply because making one mistake when stripping/assembling does not fail the test.
Why yes, I have nothing better to do on camp than spend the day cleaning weapons for my cadets…
Weapon cleaning is not difficult and there is no reason why cadets should not do it.
Cleaning and maintenance is supposed to be re-taught as a lesson at the end of the cadets’ first time firing. This means they are taught to clean a dirty weapon, rather than taught to clean a clean weapon!
All cadet trained on the L98A2 should have been trained to clean the weapon including Gas parts - no ifs, buts or maybes.
This seams like ‘lazy staff syndrome’ along with poor explanations. Regarding the complete lack of training on cleaning the Gas parts, I imagine ( and I’m speculating here) that this is teaching by WIs who converted from the L98A1 and leave out any of the new stuff as they haven’t updated their lesson plans. You only use the scotchbrite on certain parts so cadets may have got confused - Armourers have complained about receiving stainless steel weapons.
However the main place where cadets get to learn how to clean the parts properly is after an actual practice with live weapons. If instructors/RCO are not bothering with cleaning due to the time it takes (and their poor planning) then the cadets won’t gain the experience of actually cleaning the weapon.
I get really irritated with it too especially as its staff cutting corners or making up their own rules. I know some skip the cleaning part of the test (they shouldn’t) and I did see one person conduct their own version of a WHT for the L98A1 consisting of a load, unload and a port arms!!.
Personally I would say that you need to keep the cleaning in - its part of the test for regulars so why not cadets and if they go Frimley or JL then they WILL need to know and its unfair on the cadet if the staff haven’t prepped them properly. I would also like the No 8 test to include a bit of cleaning to get good habits into the cadets but that might be over complicating things.
If its any only consolation I was once called back into the armourer after a practice due to the state of the weapons. Foolishly I had assumed that they had been checked another the staff member and were fit for return. However the problem wasn’t with the gas parts which were gleaming and the armourer was quite impressed with. The cadets had concentrated so much on the gas parts that they hadn’t pulled though the barrels which were filthy - made a change and one down side of training with DPs I suppose.
Please note that my comments in the OP were to stimulate comments from our esteemed membership, I did not expect to be asked if I was some sort of loony to suggest them!
Despite inferring that I was irritated by the lack of weapon cleaning skills in our cadets I clearly did not make MY perspective obvious:
What are our WIs and SAAIs actually teaching the cadets? Not how to clean the weapons properly.
What are they being tested on? I suspect certain bits of the WHT are being ignored or glossed over. Can they strip the rifle? Yes. Can they explain how to clean it? Doesn’t really matter.
Should the L98A2 WHT actually have a section on stripping and cleaning anyway as the No 8 WHT doesn’t? Spot the rhetorical question! Yes, of course it should and so should the No 8 test for that matter.
Should stripping and assembly, and cleaning be an adult staff task only? Another rhetorical question. Absolutely not.
Out of interest, and in relation to your first post Cygnus. How many cadets are told not to strip the bolt? I was as a cadet, despite knowing how to do it because JLs are taught it.
I feel that a good place to start would be to ensure that all people who are qcWHT have the balls to point-blank refuse to administer any sort of ‘cut-down’ version of the WHT (and offer to report anyone who is found to be doing so - but generally the first firm refusal makes it clear to the suggester that this isn’t a wise course of action!).
same the pamphlet specifically says that you should only teach stripping the bolt carrier assembly to adult staff and only adult staff are permitted to strip it.
One does not truly learn how to clean an L98A2 until you are handed a gopping L98A2 and told to clean it!
[quote=“MattB” post=9918]I feel that a good place to start would be to ensure that all people who are qcWHT have the balls to point-blank refuse to administer any sort of ‘cut-down’ version of the WHT[/quote]Would that include leaving out the magazine load if there are no drill rounds available?
I think all of the cadets I’ve worked with have been told not to strip the bolt carrier assembly. Very few cadets I’ve come across even know how; there are the odd one or two bright ones who have been shown by their staff or have picked it up.
How many staff members have you seen cleaning the bolt carrier assembly components at the end of a shoot? I’ve not seen many!
Was no suggestion about being a loony… its a fact - we all are or we wouldnt be here.
Pam5C quite clearly sets out cleaning regimes. Whilst I can’t vouch for every WI/SAAI, the ones I work with do a good job at teaching cleaning, as per the book.
Is the problem the initial instruction - or is it cadets simply not firing regularly enough to keep current, and instead suffer from skill fade?
All too often we like to wag the finger and blame WIs/SAAIs/RCOs/SATTs (and instructors in other fields) without looking at the bigger picture. Cadets suffer skill fade very quickly - if they dont shoot, clean, keep current, they soon get rusty - much like a badly cleaned rifle.
same the pamphlet specifically says that you should only teach stripping the bolt carrier assembly to adult staff and only adult staff are permitted to strip it.[/quote]
But it can be demonstrated to show the “guts” of the BCA which helps some cadets gain a greater understanding of why things work.
