Keys for Sqn

Adult Staff The Staff Mess
1

An “order” has come from WHQ that every Sqn are to provide a set keys from their unit to WHQ at cost to the sqn.

My question as MoD owned buildings shouldn’t RFCA pay for of new keys? Also are we allowed to go to the local key cutters and get several sets cut and hand them out to all and sundry?

My beef is that RFCA have just put new doors complete with high security locks on my unit. The lock came with a card that contained the “code” for that key. The keys cannot be cut in a traditional method and have to be ordered from the supplier and cut with the code that came with the lock. The cost per key is £25. The contractor did not leave the card with the code and to get any keys cut then a key has to be sent away to be decoded. There is a cost to this. This is not a small cost to a Sqn and I it written down somewhere who should pay.

As a small sqn with limited resources I would rather spend this money on the cadets rather than WHQ. I am sure the WAdO would not fork out for keys to their building.

2

After our works inspection this year, our Wing required a set of keys for one of our stores :wink:

, we had them cut and they paid!

BG

3

I’m not sure WHQ (or anyone in the Uniform side of the organisation) can ‘Order’ your Civcom to spends funds on anything.
Clearly, when you approach your Civ Com and they are in agreement, then you will have to Write back and, giving your apologies, explain that the unit will not fund it, and refer them to RFCA.

MW

4

I would suggest that, as these are new security keys to a building you do not own and will require the master card you do not have, not only are you not able to do as your WHQ bids but you do not have the right to do so either.

If Wing wants keys they should talk to the building owner. That has nothing to do with the squadron and your squadron should not be expected to pay a penny towards it.

5

[quote=“incubus” post=21906]I would suggest that, as these are new security keys to a building you do not own and will require the master card you do not have, not only are you not able to do as your WHQ bids but you do not have the right to do so either.

If Wing wants keys they should talk to the building owner. That has nothing to do with the squadron and your squadron should not be expected to pay a penny towards it.[/quote]

This. WHQ are entitled to keys, however since you have no control over the locks, it’s RFCAs job to fund or source them. Should you choose to have an extra set for a new member of staff, well that’s your choice and responsibility to arrange.

6

[quote=“Plt Off Prune” post=21909][quote=“incubus” post=21906]I would suggest that, as these are new security keys to a building you do not own and will require the master card you do not have, not only are you not able to do as your WHQ bids but you do not have the right to do so either.

If Wing wants keys they should talk to the building owner. That has nothing to do with the squadron and your squadron should not be expected to pay a penny towards it.[/quote]

This. WHQ are entitled to keys, however since you have no control over the locks, it’s RFCAs job to fund or source them. Should you choose to have an extra set for a new member of staff, well that’s your choice and responsibility to arrange.[/quote]

My thoughts also Plt Off P but it would be nice to have chapter and verse to quote back up the CoC

7

I would simply write to WHQ, copied to WSO, stating that the doors are of a high-security design and that it is not possible for you to make new keys.

Leave it at that and let them work it out with RFCA.

8

No keys going to wing for our Sqn, they have to liaise with the building custodian

9

Write them a letter like this:

[quote][i][b]Dear Wing Commander

RE: Copy keys of Sqn Premises at Sqn Expense

£25 a pop!. Jog on, fella

Your Obedient Servant,

Bucketofinstantsunshine[/b][/i]
[/quote]
I’m pretty sure that is more or less in line with JSP101 guidance. :mrgreen:

I have had similar rubbish from our G4 element. I have a 2nd safe and and 2nd store which contains privately owned, acquired, gifted kit belonging to staff or the detachment outright. (All ACF/MOD/RFCA stuff goes in another safe and store.)

We gave keys to our QM, only to find our kit removed and spurious excuses given. For example we had 6 Silva 4T (tritium) compasses, that were gifted to us by the REME removed because they were, quote: ‘A radiation hazard’

He also took a .50cal case which had been made into a bottle opener by a REME metal basher which was on my desk because it was ‘prohibited, as it was a spent cartridge, pyrotechnic, or parts thereof’ etc. (On a recent visit to CHQ, I found this item on his desk when he wasn’t there and took it back.)

No 1033 was completed for any of these ‘thefts’ and I have demanded return of the compasses ASAP or I will be escalating the matter to the commandant with the reccomendation that the matter be reported to the RMP as a theft.

If you let G4 remfys unfettered access to your sqn and it’s stores, expect to lose anything shiney or attractive. I have changed the locks to both the safe and the store now. If the QM wants to see what is inside he can make an appointment and inspect it with me present.

Going slightly off tangent, my CHQ tell me I must account for all the tuck shop stock in a ledger and allow it to be inspected annually. Rubbish. The tuck shop stock is mine. I bought it, I sell it on at a small profit. I have recovered my £50 initial outlay, so it is now self sustaining. The surplus or profit is used to buy other gizzits or pay for miscellaneous expenses. I keep all the receipts, but I’ll be buggered if I am going to keep accounts!

They are threatening to remove and destroy the stock If I don’t comply.

10

My belief is that there are 3 sets of keys and a master key.

2 sets are given to the unit., one set in a box on the unit that RFCA contractors have access to.

The master key is held at WHQ/RFCA.

Contractors sign for a key to the box and main door returned on completion of work.

No unit is allowed to get more than 2 copies of the keys, was and is a big issue for all.

Dont know if this a national issue or standard but think it is.

11

Same here - our building is on an MoD site and the keyholder is the Guardroom.

12

2 sets of keys?

God knows how any unit can operate under those conditons.

13

[quote=“MattB” post=21953]2 sets of keys?

God knows how any unit can operate under those conditons.[/quote]

1 set here - held by the Guardroom, which is on a different site about half a mile away from the Sqn.

This system does mean that we don’t need to take time off work, at very short notice, to let RFCA contractors onto the premises. They ring me to arrange their visit and then I authorise them to draw the keys from the guardroom. Simples.

14

We only have 2 keys because we took the one that Wing held and have refused to give it back until they get us another. That was years ago now and no other key has been forthcoming.

It isn’t like wing need it as they have a master key to the properties; apparently they need to keep one so ti can be rotated with “active” keys on a regular basis.

Incidentally, keys for all rooms in the unit are held in a key cabinet. Any contractor needing access is given a key by RFCA which gets them into the building and into the cabinet. It isn’t a bad system and again there is no longer any expectation for volunteer staff to pitch up during the day to let people in.

15

[quote=“GOM” post=21954][quote=“MattB” post=21953]2 sets of keys?

God knows how any unit can operate under those conditons.[/quote]

1 set here - held by the Guardroom, which is on a different site about half a mile away from the Sqn.

This system does mean that we don’t need to take time off work, at very short notice, to let RFCA contractors onto the premises. They ring me to arrange their visit and then I authorise them to draw the keys from the guardroom. Simples.[/quote]That’s a rather different kettle of fish though, as presumably it effectively means that every member of staff has access?

16

^^^i’d have thought much like any guardroom released keys only those on the list. as such if a Staff member isnt on the list for whatever reason they will not be able to draw them out…??

17

That’s correct.

18

RFCA told us when we moved in to our new site we were NOT to have any further keys cut. Our office is a metal container hired in - the owners of said container said we were NOT to copy any more keys than issued

…and the keys are chubb and ferkin expensive anyway

19

[quote=“MattB” post=21953]2 sets of keys?

God knows how any unit can operate under those conditons.[/quote]

We run on 2 sets of keys without issue, the TA won’t give us any extra gate fobs so we have no choice!

20

thats what timpsons are for…