Imaginary scenario here guys and girls, but Imagine you are a newly appointent Pilot Officer, and your Wing decide to post you to a neighbouring Sqn.
Discuss. PM me if you need more deets.
Fair game; the usual issue, VR(T)s are Corps commissions therefore can be moved at the whim of those in charge…
Grabs helmet and runs for the hills :evil:
Yes yes, I expect so. When I was interviewed the big question was posed indeed.
Do Sqn OC have nay say in the outcome?
They should have an input, eg: that’s the only other member of staff and you’ve just moved them.
Unless the rules have been slyly changed in the not-yet-released ACP20, no members of staff (or cadets for that matter) may be moved between units without their express consent.
It is not unusual for new staff going for a uniformed position to be leant on by Wing HQ during the interview process with suggestions that they go to another unit for a period of time to “broaden their horizons” or for staff to be approached as wing tries to balance out a lop-sided staffing chart or help out an ailing unit. That is completely understandable and acceptable (to a point) and wing will normally be trying to do the best for the squadrons and for the wing but it is the volunteer’s call as to whether they wish to move units.
So all of you wing people need to work on your diplomacy and try to persuade rather than order or coerce people to help you out and try not to throw your teddies out of the pram if people aren’t interested in leaving a vigorous, successful unit and take charge of the failing, neglected, run-down unit in a sink estate 30 miles away 
I guess it does make some sense to get that expertise from a great sqn over to the struggling one.
Our wg cdr makes a point of it. Unless you have a bloody good reason not too, or have an invaluable skill to your current unit. Like being the only qualified AT member of staff. Like me 
As long as it’s not a silly distance away, what’s the problem.
Having done it, it’s good to be out of your comfort zone and having to work with new staff and cadets. It also gives the opportunity to help forge a link between the 2 units.
Any move should be to the good of the Corps, not just on a whim. Uniformed staff need to be evenly spread around a Wing and most places do not have loads spare at the moment so it is one of your Wing Commanders management tools.
It is made plain now during the interview process and candidates are supposed to be asked if they understand this fact.
Like most of these things if all parties are spoken to in the correct way and matters explained to them there should be no problem.
If you are going to be commissioned on a sqn, one would assume there would be space for that officer with reference to the correct maning levels.
What about a CI on a sqn which is “Full” of uniformed staff and is unable to progress into uniform because of a lack of uniformed slots? It would be good for the career development of said CI but Sqn OC said no to the move. Would you advise the CI to vote with their feed and move to the new sqn or stay a CI at Full sqn and wait for dead mans shoes.
I agree moving a newly uniformed member of staff of beneficial to most concerned. However, the move must pragmatic for the correct reasons.
I’m of the opinion that the Sqn staff are the most important people to in the Corps (Controversial). I believe this because a good staff team makes a good Sqn. Look after these people and the cadets with benefit greatly, which is our most important aim.
Moving young staff to other units for experience should only be done if the support is there for them to develop. In my mind this means no young inexperienced staff should be moved to failing units for experience. Ideally the most successful units should be used for this.
But this causes a problem. Failing units are usually failing due to shortages of effective staff. This is where experienced WOs and Offs should be asked step up and move in.
Then we have the personal issues that come with transfers. Travel distance, personalities etc that come into play. The move has to be feasible for the staff member. If it isn’t then what’s the point? Extra strain on a volunteers life is important and must be considered.
I recognise that this leaves a very small pool of people that, I believe, should even be considered for a transfer. I do have sympathy for Wing Staff when dealing with these issues. This makes young staff an easy target for a transfer. Ideally I’d see all new staff be placed on the best Sqn for their development, if it’s their current Sqn then so what?
People are commissioned into the RAFVR(T) and where they then serve should for the most part be to the best interest of the organisation. I don’t think the Corps should be reluctant to move staff at any time, again, as long as it is in the organisation’s or an individual’s interest. I am personally aware of several occasions in which long-serving, very capable Flt Lts have been ‘overlooked’ for Sqn Command in favour of newly commissioned Plt Offs simply because the Plt Off happened to already be serving on the Sqn and there was a reluctance to move others. We should be offering people the opportunity to move for ‘career enhancement’ for want of a better expression; if they turn it down, that’s their option. We also shouldn’t limit these ‘career enhancement’ moves to just Sqn Command either, 2 ic of a Sqn should be seen as an advancement in status too.
I’ve never heard of anyone move to be 2 i/c of a sqn, unless it’s been a handover period prior to assuming command.
I’d still lean towards ‘experience’ moves for 6-12 months, if only to work with other staff and cadets on a ‘daily’ basis. Many squadrons are still quite insular, so a bit of new blood, can’t be a bad thing. The only time I would err against it is if it would leave a sqn deficient.
I’ve been on a number of things where newly uniformed staff are quite inappropriate, joining in the banter and in-jokes when they haven’t earned the right, IMO, to that “intimacy”. Most of these have been ex-cadets who have in their cadet life been befriended by the squadron staff and get overly familiar with older staff.
[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=5800]I’ve never heard of anyone move to be 2 i/c of a sqn, unless it’s been a handover period prior to assuming command.
[/quote]
Neither have I, what I said was ‘2 ic of a Sqn should be seen as an advancement in status’, ie it isn’t currently viewed as a ‘career move’ but it should be used as preparation for future Sqn command.
This move has been reccomended/encouraged in my wing for a few years, we’ve had cadets that have gone to be CFAV but served their first 12months or so away from the sqn to get away from the cadets that they know so well. I think this move is a good idea and does work, provided that the CFAV can travel by themselves and has the time to do so. They are ofcourse free to return to the sqn in which they originally resided in, if they wish, or allowed to continue at the sqn they are posted to.
I don’t think that it is worth doing for a volunteer freshly joining the sqn however, maybe in extreme cases of too many staff. If they wanted to come to that particular sqn then they did so for a reason and they should get to stay should they protest the move.
I feel that my sqn has too many staff, two VR(T), two FS(ATC) + two SGT (ATC) and three CIs. None of which have any interest in moving to another sqn for a sqn strength of only 20-25 cadets.
There’s much to consider in all of these situations.
I’m aware that at my Wing Board, and at the big interview at OASC, that the question is asked about "Willingness to be moved as the Corps sees fit"
This in my eyes is what makes the RAFVR(T) the connection between RAF and ACO.
I understand it might be more difficult to move CCF attached RAFVR(T)'s as their appointment would be attached to their school’s unit.
I think RAF section CCF officers should wear CCF identifiers as they are now selected completely differently to VRT
Personaly I see no issues with being transfered to another Squadron as long as its agreed that it is indeed for the experience and that you will be able to return to your chosen unit.
Lets face it although as stated you are a volunteer you are getting paid as a VR(T)
My main consideration to this is in the case of a ex cadet who moves straight into uniform on Squadron who returns as uniform staff and hangs around with the same old friends they had as a cadet and maybe in some cases the same problem makers for them, I believe that certainly in this case that a move will be of great benefit in order that the same peer group have moved on by the time the uniformed staff have returned.
Have seen this recently on at least two squadrons where the staff member was originaly in a relationship with one of the cadets when still a cadet and the same group of friends made problems with behavior and digs thinking they would be able to get away with it still and the new staff member not strong enough or confident enough to deal with it.
There is also the case for moving Family on cadet to adult staff so VRT parents dont support siblings over ther members of staff which im sure many staff have seen far too often
No, we get “renumerated” And don’t forget, we don’t get “paid” for just turning up!
[quote]ACAI228, ACP20B wrote:
AIR CADET ADMINISTRATIVE INSTRUCTIONS
INSTRUCTION NO 228
TRANSFER OF PERSONNEL BETWEEN UNITS OF THE ATC
INTRODUCTION
- [color=#ff0000]Officers, Adult SNCOs/WOs and civilian instructors are appointed for duty at a specific unit of the Air Training Corps and may not be transferred between units without their consent[/color]. However, such a transfer may be considered in the following circumstances:
a. At the request of the individual.
b. [color=#ff0000]When a move is considered to be in the best interests of the ATC.[/color]
c. When a move would improve the long-term ATC career prospects of the adult concerned.[/quote]
However, one might imagine that a refusal to consider a transfer where it was judged to be in the best interests of the Corps could be considered a career-limiting decision by OC Wing…
Cheers
BTI