have to be a bloody good reason though for it to be in the best interest of the corps though, but the ones that I can think of would most likely end up suspension or dismissal.
Would you consider development of the officer cadre to be in the interest of the Corps? After all, if we have more capable staff, this should result in improvements to the management and running of the organisation and an improvement in the end product, ie cadet training.
my two pennies worth.
it is common for VRTs to move around in our Wing, and to be asked to move. we recently had a CO move from one to another Sqn with a jumble round of the relevant Sqn staff, with three Sqns involved as COs stood down/appointed/transferred while other case has seen a Sqn Officer move to a new Sqn as CO
we sometimes have ATCs move also, but this is typically for a set time period 3-6 months.
i know of CIs, past more than present, who refuse to go into uniform because they only want to parade at their chosen Sqn which i can understand, although does limit their expereice and exposure.
Career limiting is interesting.
The document seems ambiguous to me. Does this actually mean that the VR(T) officer can be moved withoutgiving their own consent to the move?
Having read that section, I can’t see that the “transferee” has any choice over it.
What do you think about the idea of wing cutting out the chain of command and a senior wing staff officer calling a junior officer directly, as opposed to through the repsctive WSO and Losing Sqn’s OC?
In my Wg, only the P Staff Officer after consultation with OC Wg, can move staff around. That includes staff that wish to transfer.
Our WSO’s cannot decide to move people without authority.
Personally (and in a perfect world) I would like to see an even spread of staff across the Wing. Sometimes, we see units that are top heavy with staff and running a successful unit, whilst on others, we have so few staff that no matter how hard they try, they simply cannot run a successful unit due to those low staff numbers.
I would like ALL staff to be on the strength of Wg HQ and then ‘posted’ to various units within their geographical limits, to give all units an even chance of success. Whilst I’m dreaming on, I’d like to see all Sqn Cdrs posted every 4 years to another Sqn within their sector. This gives time to develop junior officers for command positions and stops units (and some CO’s) from going stale. It would also stop the ‘my trainset’ mentality. Those officers who are most successful going from Sqn to Sqn and making things work (remember, they’d also have an equal number of staff on every unit), get brought onto Wg Staff as a WSO in the rank of Sqn Ldr. This and natural wastage through the retirement of older officers would provide opprtunities for the JO’s to take command after their developmental period.
The same could be done with Warrant Officers but instead od WSO posts, they could progress into Sector, Wing and eventually Regional Warrant Officer roles.
Is this proposition mad or does any part of it have merit? Also remember that we’re not talking about sending people miles and miles away from their original units as they’d be operating within their same sector. A few extra miles perhaps but nothing that would add huge amounts to vehicle mileage or HTD costs either.
Seems logical.
Is a Deputy Wing OC part of “P Staff”?
We have a Personnel Officer who is a Sqn Ldr but we don’t have a designated Dep OC Wg.
[quote=“wizzardprang” post=6105]…The document seems ambiguous to me. Does this actually mean that the VR(T) officer can be moved withoutgiving their own consent to the move?
Having read that section, I can’t see that the “transferee” has any choice over it…[/quote]
thats not what it looks like to me - though i accept entirely that the language could do with tiding up.
to me, it says that all moves must be voluntary. end of - but that in the stated situations, the officer can be askedif they would transfer. if they agree, great - if they refuse, hard luck.
Broadly i’d agree with Gunner, that ACO staffing is too important an element of the ACO to be left to the chance of which Sqn’s/locations people prefer (within reason) - my only concern however would be the additional weight this centralisation gives to the undeniable ‘HQAC-isation’ of the ACO, a process where (it appears to me at least) the emphasis has gone from HQAC/Region/Wing supporting the Sqn Cdr at a distance, to one where the Sqn provides something for HQAC/Region/Wing with something to order about and exists purely to justify the higher formations existance.
[quote=“Gunner” post=6106]Personally (and in a perfect world) I would like to see an even spread of staff across the Wing. Sometimes, we see units that are top heavy with staff and running a successful unit, whilst on others, we have so few staff that no matter how hard they try, they simply cannot run a successful unit due to those low staff numbers.
I would like ALL staff to be on the strength of Wg HQ and then ‘posted’ to various units within their geographical limits, Is this proposition mad or does any part of it have merit? Also remember that we’re not talking about sending people miles and miles away from their original units as they’d be operating within their same sector. A few extra miles perhaps but nothing that would add huge amounts to vehicle mileage or HTD costs either.[/quote]
Having done a time limited transfer to a sqn that was within my sector (when sectors were introduced), the distance wasn’t the problem (it was 4.2 miles further than my old unit) it was the time taken getting to and from. Another 25 minutes due to the RUBBISH roads and they are still the same today.
I don’t actually believe there is much merit in a Wing staffing system, as people will volunteer to help in their local town or where there children join as cadets. Tell a mum or dad “oh by the way you’re now going to be on the staff of x instead of y”. If they then say no, what happens? If Wing get all snotty about it and they walk, who are the losers? How do you then tell other staff you’ve got to move, if the precedent not to has been taken? What needs to be remembered is that this isn’t (or shouldn’t) the be all and end all for staff, it’s not a career it’s a hobby. If this system was to come into play you may well deter people from taking a uniform role. It has to be remembered that people’s lives change in many ways and while they may agree to it in principle at the time, when it comes to it, things may have changed in their lives and regardless of distance it might just not be practical to parade somewhere different. I could quite easily parade at other squadrons, but it would to some extent be on my terms and just put more aggro into my life getting to and from and not just on parade nights. The HTD is nonsensical given they remove 6 miles return, so driving further may not be economically viable as you may not be able to drive those miles in an economical fashion.
Sometimes, GHE2, I wonder why you continue in the Corps. Whilst I respect your opinion, it strikes me that no matter what the subject, you always look for reasons why something won’t work as opposed to finding ways of making them work.
Whilst I’m not saying that my proposals would work you come across as anti-Wing Staff, anti-anyone in authority, anti-roads, anti-civilian employer, anti-graduate in fact, anti-bloody everything!
Is there anything in life that you like?
What’s wrong with people throwing some negatives into the mix? Would you rather people fall on their faces and say it’s all wonderful, rather than challenge the ideas? If this went up for a brainstorming they’re the sort of thing that would or should come up.
The idea is very much an ACF approach and it (in my area) seems to cause no end of grief. With people resigned to moving regularly and going through the motions, which doesn’t have a particularly good effect on the detachment. I know there are some here who would say “oh yes” and damn anyone who doesn’t want to play as they think it will make for a stronger organisation. Maybe 40/50 years ago, but now I don’t think this is the case. My dad said he’s glad he worked when he did as what he sees me and my brother having to put up with to bring home a decent salary. People have much busier lives with greater demands from their paymasters , so put too many awkward bits in their path for a spare time activity and it would not be an encouragement.
I’ve done the move thing and while it was good in terms of broadening horizons, it became more of hardship in terms of the extra time travelling, due to the roads and traffic. So doing things, especially, at the weekend became a chore rather than something I’d done and enjoyed for years before and since. This is a hobby and it’s difficult to enjoy a hobby/spare time activity if you feel it’s not working for you and or if people start telling you how you must enjoy it. One of the common things on here is recruitment and retention of staff, I would suggest retention of uniform staff would suffer if you were told with no quarter where to parade, regardless of distance. You only have to look around any Wing to see the struggle they have to staff sqns with an officer to be OC. There were/are apparently some Wings with Sqn Cdrs running 2 or 3 sqns or they are run by SNCOs. The future, if we’re not careful?
As for the little list of negatives, so we’re supposed to dawdle along liking people/things just to keep people happy? Too many things I’ve seen in life haven’t/don’t live up to the expectation/billing and so now I have very low expectations and guess what, I’m rarely disappointed, also I have been disappointed by those groups of people mentioned throughout my life.
As for things in life I like - doing my own thing, my family, plus the ATC because of what it can offer people who join as cadets or volunteer as staff.
I think his point was, that you never have anything good to say or supportive comments about this organisation.
Scratched records are often ignored.
I wouldn’t be in the Corps and I would definitely not be a sqn cdr if I didn’t think it was a good organisation in terms of the opportunities it provides and positive effect it can have on those that join. This is inspite of what the senior management has tried to do with unintelligent tinkering over the years.
However this forum does not represent the views and opinions of people I hear whenever 2 or 3 are gathered together locally. Everyone I meet is frustrated by a lack of understanding by the people running the organisation and those employed in admin roles and this frustration is displayed by everyone from the Wg Cdr down. I find it bizarre that Wg Cdr’s have no control over Wing HQ staff as they are line managed by Region. In the last 10 years especially, at the annual COs meeting our Wing Commmanders’ state of the nation has been one of resignation in terms of what we can do and how we do it in light of the decisions made higher up the chain. However when they speak in public they are full of glowing testimonials about the Corps.
If people put forward ideas that I feel have positives then I will be positive. It irritates that ideas are suggested are positive and implimented in a detrimental way and the people we look to, to provide training and support don’t do it as expected.
The notion suggested is not IMO a good idea for an organisation that is on the whole a hobby. The idea of telling people where they will volunteer (without unpressured consent) and practice their hobby, IMO flies in the face of the very nature of volunteering. While the sentiment of levelling the staffing playing field by shifting staff around to suit needs is a noble one, but IMO a non-starter. Although having run a sqns with practically no staff, my current one started with me and 2 others and a CWC comprising 2 people, I have now got 9 staff and a CWC of 8, the idea of parachuting staff in has some appeal, but would I as a CO want staff who were only there because they were told to be, not really. Would I want staff that I had built up to be moved on the whim of chess playing Wing Staff, no. Why would I want to put pressure the remaining staff and overall reduce what we do? If someone wants to move, that’s a different kettle of fish.
[quote=“Gunner” post=6218]Is there anything in life that you like?[/quote]The sound of his own voice?