That was the same logic my old OC Wing displayed whenever we talked about putting staff cadets through AT qualifications. “But what if they leave?”
I’m sure I remember seeing somewhere that we were supposed to be providing training that would be useful in service & civilian life?
And I don’t disagree with that, but we can’t use that as an argument and say they’ll come back as staff as well. It’s one or the other.
I have always responded to that “So what?”. Staff seem to always get places above staff cadets anyway so if they are taking a slot up that wasn’t going to be used i see no problem in it.
If anything i can get a staff cadet through an LLA much easier (and cheaper) than JL. I always hate staff almost forcing cadets to come back as staff because they have sent them through a couple of courses that cost the corps sod all in the big picture.
The corps are missing out on getting people AT NGB quals in a big way. No one outside of our world will know what an JL is, but with an LLA or CWI or PSI they can actually get a job with it.
I’m not suprised 9 weekends would put cadets off. At that age they are thinking about exams and I find it difficult to get cadets to go on around 5-6 weekends to complete their 3 star training.
No it’s not. We’re still civilians 
So we can give them skills useful in civilian life and hold the hope that we’ll keep hold a few…
All of them leave eventually. Should you spend precious time putting cadets through the training syllabus and getting quals when you know they are going to leave at some point, either through lack of interest or age? Of course you should, because that is why we are here.
This. This. And this again.
I put JL as a course which provides Leadership Skills into the same bracket as giving Cadets NGB qualifications, if it encourages them to stay as staff or to one day come back as staff good.
But even if they don’t come back if it helps them to develop a career or life outside the ATC also good.
Not sure if the point as been brought up… But, out of curiosity… what do you think would happen IF it’s decided to end cadet ‘service’ at 18 as per the ACF model?
When we have more than one cadet doing the course, we can argue for both advantages. Some cadets come back as staff, others join up, many do both, coming back as SIs,
JL does offer a Level 3 ILM in Leadership and Management, it was only a Level 2 when I did IX course, but that was equivalent to an extra A-Level IIRC. And to be fair, we should be teaching these young people that when we say ‘it’s good for the CV’ they need to be taught that they also need to actually describe what something like this is, it’s an opportunity to sell themselves for doing something out of the ordinary. It’s what I did!
I don’t think a lot of cadets know well enough how to sell their experiences and achievements…
Phrases like these are used a lot and they’re quite deceptive in my opinion. The ILM Level 3 in L&M might be at the same level as an A Level (ie the same difficulty) but they aren’t the same work load as an A Level. Absolutely, they are a CV booster but saying they are equivalent implies things like they may be accepted in place of A Levels for University, which they are not.
Depends on the university, I dipped one of my A-Levels and was a handful of points short of my conditional offer, they let me keep my place based upon my having a Gold DofE.
Things like ILM can make a huge difference when push comes to shove.
Absolutely, but they aren’t equivalent.
I think that’s definitely true - and not just with cadets.
They see the things they’ve done and achieved as ‘just another trip away’ and aren’t really aware of how they stack up against their peers.
Having tangible rewards like BTECs out of them helps.
I was wrong, a Level 3 is equivalent to an A-Level. (I’m confusing how useful my Level 2 from JL was for getting into Uni, with how useful my level 3 from OIC was for getting my job.)
And yes, I said ‘Equivalent’ I agree they are not the same route to a qualification, and have different types of work, but saying that an A-Level has a higher workload is just one way in which people look down on vocational qualifications. The government says they are equivalent, and they gain the same number of UCAS points etc.
I might be wrong, but I believe the ILM Lvl 3 in L&M does not attract UCAS points.
I may be confusing points and ‘credits’
Correct, but points are only part of the equation.