That would be amusing as we are going to trial a staff cadet model.
That’s Interesting [split thread please?]
Have they released any information on how they’d do it etc?
I did some modding(!) here’s your new thread.
Tell us more Talon…
This was mentioned to a group of us while we attended ATF a few months ago.
Apparently the SCC are looking at the same thing too?
I’m afraid there is nothing too juicy at the moment. It was released back in May that Cadets Branch are looking into the feasibility of introducing a staff cadet model for 18-20 year olds, similar to RAFAC. No details as yet but if deemed feasible they will be looking to have a trial programme running towards the end of the year. No further information as of yet, but with annual camp season almost here I imagine they won’t want to bother counties with it until September onwards.
So I’m wondering if this quashes the rumours/plans of axing our staff cadets.
@talon - out of curiosity, what is the ACF’s history regarding over 18s: Have there ever been over-18 cadets in the history of the ACF? What was the actual reason for not having them etc?
Now now, let’s not get too crazy…
As an SCC member, i cannot understand why we dont have staff cadets through all the services, they’re a valuable link between staff and cadet, and its also a valuable tool in helping future staff better prepare and mature into their prospective roles
Yes. Until 2017 we had cadets until they were 18.75, the reason being that this generally gave them until they left school or at least close to it. Handy for university leavers. They stopped having them because the old crusties at the top couldn’t handle it. 18+ cadets had to be in separate accommodation where this was feasible (as it generally was). I think they were also scared of something happening between an 18 year old cadet and a much younger one. In all my time as a cadet and an instructor this never seemed to cause an actual problem, more of a theoretical one.
They should have just put them with the adults, as obviously they no longer had the same “in loco parentis” responsibility that they have with under 18 cadets. The crusties just couldn’t seem to get their heads around that one.
It is a real pain as it causes use to lose some really good senior cadets 9 months earlier than we need to. The CCF were not included in this and were able to remain as cadets until they left school.
I would see staff cadets as a really good way to transition the cadets to adult instructors. They could start on their adult training while remaining in uniform, instead of being told to disappear for a while. The important thing is they need to be treated much more like adults than they were before.
that was quashed months ago with a FOI request. The emails saying basically no one wants to change and it works, so leave it alone.
When I joined the ACF as a cadet in 1962 the starting age was 14 and you could serve until 18 and 3/4. I left just before my 18th birthday. When I came back to the ACF in 1972 the starting age had been dropped to 13 but the top age remained the same. A few years ago the age limit was dropped to 18. There were a number of reasons for this but perhaps the main one was the need to have separate sleeping arrangements for the over 18.
I am no longer serving with the ACF having retired as a Commandant in 2012 but I never had a problem with 18+ cadets.
I would suggest that this is another plan by Cadet Branch to increase cadet numbers which, despite taking girls and reducing the starting age to 12, continue to drop.
As an example in 2012, my last camp as Commandant I took 700 cadets to camp in two locations. The older cadets at Penally in South Wales and the bulk in St Martin’s Plain. Last year the same County took just over 300 cadets a drop of 50 percent.
Of course there are lots of reason for the drop in numbers but I believe the problem is that due to micro management at the top, restrictions on what cadets can do and a failure by the powers to be to understand what cadets want. In short the fun has gone out of the cadet forces.
The starting age is 12.
I was a Staff Cadet over 18 until my 22nd birthday. But there was more going on in the cadet side camps and at least one over 18 specific camp.
I’m not so sure it does work quite so well in the modern era.
What do the 18+ today have to look forward to, being used and abused like the adult staff? While having a number of staff fawning over them in an unhealthy manner to butter them up for adult staff.
If we are going to have Cadets over 18, we really need to think what would or do they want fromthe organisation? If all they want is courses, prove their worth to stay beyond 18, looking after children, with nothing else for them, then fine. But what if they would like to have camps and activities where it’s just over 18s and at the end of the day, take off the uniform and they can be adults and left to go and do whatever as long as they are fit in the morning. When we went to annual camp there were several of us, whereas today with so few places if an 18+ went to camp it would potentially be a lonely and uninspiring week.
I would also take the numbers on SMS with a pinch of salt in terms of attendance, so while they may be on the books, just how much do they turn up. We’ve just had 2 of our 3 17 year olds leave, as they have just finished the 1st year of their college courses, want to get a job before they start next year and start applying for uni. We’ve not seen much of them in the last 8/9 months, so knew this was coming.
As much as I (as a staff cadet) would appreciate an over 16s camp, it really isn’t too much of a deal breaker for me. I think staff cadets stay because they enjoy the organisation, they really don’t need any special changes.
As for it being a lonely week, that is sometimes the case but often the few older cadets make friends. One of my friends from Scotland is just back from camp where they had 5 staff cadets on a 30 cadet camp, so it wasn’t too bad for her.
Thank you for correcting me; I have amended my post accordingly.
An over 16s camp would just be camp with all the usual restrictions. An over 18 camp would be an entirely different thing, like Gatow was back in the day.
But it’s all immaterial as the powers that be are scared witless to lose the over 18s as the will lose the potential staff so not have to make volunteering more attractive.
I’m firmly in the other camp and feel that we should have adopted the SCC model where cadets who achieve certain criteria may enter direct to a training staff role at 18.
We already do similar by requiring our staff cadets to have achieved all sorts of nonsense before they turn 18 but where we muck it up (in my opinion) is by saying they are part-staff, part-cadet.
In the SCC they are staff. Simple.
They’re adults; they have some of the same “legal” responsibilities as staff - make them staff.
It’s perspective and approach:
Staff Cadets are currently treated as cadets with staff responsibilities… They should be treated as staff members with access to cadet opportunities.
But that still means part staff / part cadet and we all know on which side the erring will be.
The solution is to bring the staff age down to 18.
If we just carry on as we are, there should not be an underlying pressure to do this or that course. It didn’t exist before and shouldn’t now, we were
allowed to find our way and “develop” how we wanted and at our pace.