No it’s not. We’re still civilians 
So we can give them skills useful in civilian life and hold the hope that we’ll keep hold a few…
1 Like
All of them leave eventually. Should you spend precious time putting cadets through the training syllabus and getting quals when you know they are going to leave at some point, either through lack of interest or age? Of course you should, because that is why we are here.
8 Likes
This. This. And this again.
8 Likes
I put JL as a course which provides Leadership Skills into the same bracket as giving Cadets NGB qualifications, if it encourages them to stay as staff or to one day come back as staff good.
But even if they don’t come back if it helps them to develop a career or life outside the ATC also good.
3 Likes
Not sure if the point as been brought up… But, out of curiosity… what do you think would happen IF it’s decided to end cadet ‘service’ at 18 as per the ACF model?
When we have more than one cadet doing the course, we can argue for both advantages. Some cadets come back as staff, others join up, many do both, coming back as SIs,
JL does offer a Level 3 ILM in Leadership and Management, it was only a Level 2 when I did IX course, but that was equivalent to an extra A-Level IIRC. And to be fair, we should be teaching these young people that when we say ‘it’s good for the CV’ they need to be taught that they also need to actually describe what something like this is, it’s an opportunity to sell themselves for doing something out of the ordinary. It’s what I did!
2 Likes
I don’t think a lot of cadets know well enough how to sell their experiences and achievements…
Phrases like these are used a lot and they’re quite deceptive in my opinion. The ILM Level 3 in L&M might be at the same level as an A Level (ie the same difficulty) but they aren’t the same work load as an A Level. Absolutely, they are a CV booster but saying they are equivalent implies things like they may be accepted in place of A Levels for University, which they are not.
1 Like
Depends on the university, I dipped one of my A-Levels and was a handful of points short of my conditional offer, they let me keep my place based upon my having a Gold DofE.
Things like ILM can make a huge difference when push comes to shove.
2 Likes
Absolutely, but they aren’t equivalent.
I think that’s definitely true - and not just with cadets.
They see the things they’ve done and achieved as ‘just another trip away’ and aren’t really aware of how they stack up against their peers.
Having tangible rewards like BTECs out of them helps.
I was wrong, a Level 3 is equivalent to an A-Level. (I’m confusing how useful my Level 2 from JL was for getting into Uni, with how useful my level 3 from OIC was for getting my job.)
And yes, I said ‘Equivalent’ I agree they are not the same route to a qualification, and have different types of work, but saying that an A-Level has a higher workload is just one way in which people look down on vocational qualifications. The government says they are equivalent, and they gain the same number of UCAS points etc.
I might be wrong, but I believe the ILM Lvl 3 in L&M does not attract UCAS points.
I may be confusing points and ‘credits’
Correct, but points are only part of the equation.
Doing one of these big ticket courses was certainly one of the primary reasons I stayed past-18 and eventually got roped into being staff…
1 Like
Wonder how the cost compares to a flying scholarship (or indeed GS)?
picked purely as it is closest to Cranwell as a civilian BGA club a 5 day gliding course is £500
details here> http://www.buckminstergc.co.uk/courses/
(includes up to 5 x flights/day = 25 flights)
So i would hope 8-9 hours with a VGS to get each student to solo level would be no more than the same £500 not taking into account MOD economics where even the most basic 49p item will be charged at £2.50…!
if each fight is assumed to be 20 minutes, thus 25 flights in the week is 500minutes or 8hours20
Matt asks an interesting question
how much benefit does the population/country/economy/etc see by producing 100s of Cadets who have gone solo via a GS and thus inspired into the aviation industry and potentially becoming professional or private pilots (like i was) than 50-60 or so young “Leaders and managers” from a JL course…
read the GA magazines and you’ll soon find complaints that the UK aviation industry is being left behind in terms of the number of pilots we’re producing (professional/commercial pilots and private) and many put it down to the lack of hands on aviation from time with the ATC - many of today’s pilots first sat in an aircraft because of their time in the ATC
Can the same be said for the top leaders, business managers and executives in that they have got to where they have because of the leadership and management skills learnt in the ATC?
perhaps too soon to judge the legacy of the JL course…?
Whilst this may be true, I don’t imagine the ever-increasing costs of becoming a commercial pilot have helped things.