Joint ATC/CCF Night Ex possibility?

Cadets Ask the Staff
1

I asked this in the discord but I don’t think there are many staff on there.
By the way I am CCF RAF

On my last night ex (I am de facto RAF FC lead - I do planning/prep for all exercises and FC activities as RAF staff don’t care about FC), the biggest issue was numbers - if we had enough seniors we could have an OPFOR element, if we had more cadets we could have a full platoon and HQ element (not just 2 sections), more ambushes, more contacts, more realism etc = better exercises and more fun for the cadets - end goal of RAFAC.

I highly doubt that we are going to get a massive amount more RAF cadets joining night exercises, and the Army section is insistent that we will not do combined night exercises - inter service is then out of the window as there is no RN/RM section.

I was thinking we could get some cadets from 2 ATC sqns, who are very near us and I know both have minibuses, on our night exs and fieldcraft training on some parade nights, but I don’t know what issues there are with this, keeping in mind CCF sections use different regs to ATC for FC (I think it is army regs?). If I am to have any chance at getting this through (see staff who don’t care) it needs to be fairly oven ready.

If anyone could advise on issues staff would need to sort out, that would be superb.

Cheers

2

My understanding is that CCF(RAF) are meant to follow the same regs as ATC for fieldcraft. I may be wrong though. It may just be that our fieldcraft lead is supernumerary and main post is with the ATC.

I’ve had a look at ACFTI 001 which says it is for all RAFAC and even references that CCF(RAF) have equivalent qualifications for running FT, but then everything else in terms of approvals etc is written with only the ATC in mind (quelle suprise - I guess just run anything off school grounds straight to HQ). However I’ve found nothing at all in the CCF Regulations to say that CCF(RAF) should follow Army regulations for FT, only found references there to single service HQ setting the relevant syllabi. Therefore you shouldn’t have the problem of different syllabus for ATC/CCF(RAF) because you should be using the same lessons.

3

First question; are you staff or a cadet?

Either way, what you are suggesting is not impossible, far from it, but is unlikely to be “oven ready”. The starting point here would be the RAFAC Fieldcraft policy contained in Air Cadet Fieldcraft Instructions on Barder Key Docs. Have a read of those to understand the art the possible, and moreover what is not.

if we had more cadets we could have a full platoon and HQ element (not just 2 sections), more ambushes, more contacts, more realism etc

Ambushes, and any kind of offensive operations are not allowed in the RAFAC, defensive operations only, along with lessons to be taught in accordance with Cadet Fieldcraft & Tactics, with or without Cadet Weapon Systems and Blank Ammo & Pyrotechnics.

I suggest you start by engaging with the local ATC Sqadrons to see if they are interested. If they are, ask them to engage with their Wing and Regional Fieldcraft Officer. The biggest challenge is the fact there are two very different Chains of Command. The Exercise Director are different people for the ATC and CCF(RAF). For the ATC, It’s usually the Wing Commander; for the CCF(RAF), the Headmaster. the Exercise Director would then appoint a Senior Planning Officer and Planning Officer within their Chain of Command.

I am not sure what the answer is here (I know there are some in the RAFAC trying to formalise what the answer should be). At a guess, I’d imagine both CoCs would need to agree on these appointments to enable planning.

I’d allow at least an 8 week lead time to get through these hurdles, appoint SPO/PO and submit an EASP for approval.

Would this be taking place on School property or DTE? If on school property, there may be TOPL required as techincally its private land, even though it’s owned by one of the participating parties.

TL;DR: Not impossible, I’ve done it with shooting activites, but you need some fairly sensible Wing/Regional staff on the ATC side and supportive CCF(RAF)/Contingent staff to go through the paperwork.

4

Didn’t know this honestly, we’ve always done fairly offensive stuff ie section attacks, ambushes, basic cqb etc. All good fun.

Cadet

Will do.

Thanks for the Staff perspective - it makes it a lot easier to pitch to my own staff.
Cheers

5

The other thing to bear in mind if you’re a cadet is that for most FT you need to have a qualification to teach IIRC.

6

Always remember the cadet golden rule;

“It is easier to all for forgiveness than permission”

7

You could always suggest something with the ACF instead. We’ve done joint weekends with CCF(RAF) before, with TIBUA and fun stuff like that. It was fun.

8

Just to clarify:

CCF(RAF) can either do Fieldcraft as part of an Army-led Contingent activity, or as a standalone RAF section activity. In the former case the safety approval process and qualifications, ratios etc. are approved by the Army TSA and no further RAFAC involvement is required, although you do need to do a TAF for approval of VA, transport etc.

In the latter we are entirely the same as the ATC and require the same qualifications, staffing etc.; in this case there is a WO at HQAC (WO Sharp IIRC) who needs to approve the activity. So if you want to do a joint CCF(RAF)/ATC activity you’ll be under these rules - which means it’s no easier (or harder) than the ATC doing it on their own.

1 Like
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PS there’s a flowchart in the TAF guidance booklet on the approval process which your staff should know.

10

ooops

11

^ fixed that for you.

All FT requires FCI now, even at a local level. ACFTI 01, Chapter 1 refers.

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12

Can cadets get/need FCI quals or just staff?

13

Under the new system, yes, they can get the ‘FI (B) (21)’, AKA the “B” course which allows them to teach lessons 1-4, 6 and 15.

14

What restrictions are there on that course in terms of age, rank etc?

Also what does 1-4, 6 and 15 cover - I am CCF, so no bader unfortunately

15

Pre-requisites are be 16 years old or above and already have a good understanding of the Fieldcraft lessons and experience of them.
The lessons are:

1 Preparation & Packaging of Personal Equipment
2 Administration in the Field
2A Maintaining Clothing & Equipment
2B Maintaining Standards of Personal Hygiene
2C Feeding in the Field
3 The Two Man Shelter
4 Why Things are Seen
5 Personal Camouflage & Concealment
6 Observation
7 Judging Distance
7A Judging Distance by unit of measure
7B Judging Distance by appearance
7C Aids to Judging Distance
8 Indication of Targets
9 Range Cards
10 Duties of a Sentry
11 Moving with or without personal weapons ✓
12 Field Signals ✓
13 Elementary Obstacle Crossing
14 Selecting a route across country
15 Introduction to Night Training
16 Elementary Night Movement
17 Stalking
18 Reaction to Fire Control Orders
19 Keeping Direction at Night
20 Individual Fire and Movement
21 Operating as a Fire Team and Section
22 Issuing Fire Control Orders

16

Perfect Cheers for sending that over

I can’t find any info about FI (B) (21) from googling - I’m guessing its all bader once again. Is it just a case of getting staff to book me on?

Also any idea where/when its held

Cheers for the help

17

Can’t help you with that I’m afraid as I’m only going off of information shared to by email. It’s a brand new course so some people may still not even know it exists. Worth talking to your Fieldcraft officer, not sure how that works with CCF though. If you have no luck maybe contact the ATC fieldcraft officer of the wing you are ‘within’ and see if they are running any courses?

18

Will do

Cheers for your help mate - I didn’t know a FCI course and regulations around FC existed before.

19

I think you might find it gets a rebrand before going live. If you go to DTE they have a different expectation of what a B qual is

20

Has that actually come in yet?