Is there a difference between a JNCO course and a bronze leadership course
You need to check with the staff running the course - they are two different things, but I have heard of some (trying) to combine the two. I don’t know how successful they’ve been or how reliable the results are if it is happening.
In DWW we have combined the two over 2 days and it seems to work really well
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I wish my Wing would do that at the moment they drag NCO Training out over 3 courses with the leadership as another separate one.
To answer the question they are different courses.
JNCO courses are training courses that are run with the aim to improve and assist Corporals (or PNCOs) in being a good JNCO iaw ACTO 7 (NCO Training). The course should follow ACP 48, although some courses add other sections at their own discretion. No badge is awarded for this course on its own. Every NCO should undertake this course OR Squadron staff should run this at their respective squadrons so that training is received to the same standard.
The Bronze leadership course is a leadership courses that involves 4 different modules as theory learning. The course culminates in a 30 minute written assessment and a 30 minute practical leadership exercise. This course follows ACTO 85 and culminates in the Bronze Leadership Badge under the PTS if successfully completed.
Now in terms of mixing the courses, I run and many others also run the two side by side. This is done through enhancing the Leadership sections on the JNCO course (Section 5 and 6, ACP 48). There are 8 sections on the JNCO course and by improving the leadership sections, better training is given and Cadets get a badge.
However, I know that many Wings incorrectly give Bronze badges for JNCO completion and Silver for SNCO. This is only correct if all aspects of Leadership are covered in ACTO 85, and if all aspects of NCO training are covered in ACP48.
Hope this helps. Any responses would be greatly appreciated
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What about the ILM Level 2 in Leadership that exceeds ACTO 85 but does not seem to be recognised by ACO?
Higher “qualification” than anything run on any JNCO course!
At present it looks as though only JNCO & SNCO will ever get their Leadership Badges.
What about the rest of the cadets that may never get to NCO but are more than capable of completing the ILM Course!!!
You don’t need to run bronze and silver leadership courses solely as part of NCO courses
There is nothing stopping a cadet going on an NCO course. I quite regularly send cadets on them for leadership training and development but have no current plan to promote them.
That depends on your Wing and whether they will allow it!
This is what gets me. NCO Training and leadership training are different entities - a large degree of synergy, yes, but different.
L2 to my knowledge can be run at Sqn? I run the L2 TPD course at Sqn. Why not get your cadets on those as tangible qualifications will be of far greater value than a piece of coloured cloth. However…
If your Wing’s only badged leadership training is through the NCO courses then they shouldn’t be barring anyone from entry who meets the requirements to go for the badge. You don’t have to be an NCO to be a leader and every cadet can benefit from those skills.
Run a Sector based Bronze Leadership course then.
Or that. There’s a strong argument in favour that should quash any push-back.
This highlights a concern that people are running these to tick boxes on matrices and clock up some PTD and using cadets to do this. An NCO course is a day at most.
We do NCO training on the squadron with a nix of separate sessions and on the job, and only after getting Wing moaning we don’t send NCOs/cadets on their courses, have we started to, but we still do it on squadron. I’ve not seen much value in the Wing courses TBH.
So absolutely everything you might need to know as an NCO, plus practise and assessment can be covered in a day? Riiiiiight…
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The best answer , I was given a full breif tonight. The course was meant to be held at Cosford but due to accommodation been moved to a local squadron. I was told that at the end of the course I would be presented with a bronze leadership but in the breif no mention of any bronze leadership badge tests in the full breif. All the other cadets from my sqn who have been on JNCO have came back with bronze leadership.
Unfortunately that does not qualify you for the badge. That being said, many wings do just give the badge out. That seems to be the case for yours at the moment.
The courses our Wing runs don’t do any real assessment as they have too many cadets. But I couldn’t careless, I don’t want an opinion based on a few hours contact.
IMO the point to an NCO course is inform, the practice happens at the squadron in the “real world” not the artificial environment of a course with people butting heads and trying to be something they’re not. I also feel there is too much subjectivity in assessments from this sort of thing. The people running them IMO are doing it as I said to tick boxes. The FS on the sqn I run, was resigned to going on a couple to fill up the promotion matrix.
So the NCO course is long enough at one day, and yet that doesn’t include assessment and even if it did it wouldn’t be enough contact time to be a worthwhile assessment?
Meanwhile it’s somehow both over-staffed and yet has too many cadets to assess?
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Dinosaurs don’t understand logic
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Please stop feeding the trolls. Eventually once people stop giving them the attention they crave they will go back to their caves and leave us alone.