How should we update or replace the 3822?


#1

As on the VoV site on SharePoint.

What would you do?


#2

I’ve added my thoughts to the VoV page.

Id like to see an app for the smart phones as an addition to rather than a replacement of the 3822 book.

I’ve still got mine and it would be a shame to see it go.


#3

The problem for me with apps is that it is dependant on cadets having Smart Phones, lots do but some don’t. (Same goes for staff!)


#4

I think there is definitely scope for an app, perhaps just to manage SMS activities in the field.
Data Sy people will poo a brick though.


#5

There is a document about the 3822 being replaced with a plastic photo card for cadets to wear around camps. I would like to see these fitted with barcodes to make them readable. In this day we should not be putting information onto Bader then writing the same in a log book, in my veiw it should all be on Bader. There is no real reason why cadets need to carry this information I use my smart phone or a tablet in the field if I need to gain information. Let’s make things slim lined


#6

Why do we even need the barcode, why not just give anyone running an event through SMS access to the SMS records for everyone on the event. It would mean you can still only normally see the SMS records for your own cadets/staff, unless it’s a multi-unit activity in which case you then have access to other Squadrons records but only those who are attending the activity?


#7

I have to agree with the calls questioning why it needs replacing.

The F3822 is primarily a record of service a secondly a form of ID

There is an argument that SMS covers record of service – but it remains clunky, not quick and relies on others to be accurate.
As a book is acts as a memento as suitably described. A souvenir of what was achieved.
It acts as a basic flying log, I am certainly proud of the “Self” entry on the last line in my gliding history having flown solo
It also acts as a shooting log, sports, camps visited, proficiencies achieved without a badge (Swimming), lists other activities

As a form of ID it is pointless – in my experience as Staff (ignoring the “good old days when I was a Cadet”) Cadets are not allowed through our parent station gates with a F3822 alone, instead a Staff escort is required . I do however accept the argument for discounts it is an ideal ID to show retail counters.

The ID element is easily and readily replaced but a Card, be that a formal MOD90 style or the yet to be seen CI style membership cards.
These however are single element – it doesn’t offer the record of service part of the book. (arguably it does offer a souvenir)
It is also another process to jump through. We all know the joys in getting first class logbooks, these were ordered once a recruit was added to SMS and a personalised copy “soon” arrived. Sometime a week, sometimes a month later consider how long it would take, and the added complexity, be that a paper form or online (with photo upload) to fill in.
Currently Squadrons will have a “stock” of F3822s, be that 5 or 25 and they can issue then as required – a photo ID card stops that ease and in its place adds complexity and time delay.

The service record element I think can only be something personal with ownership by the Cadet.
It puts the responsibility on them, which is something worth learning at this age, they should take responsibility for their own work.
We all know there are Cadets out there who don’t fill theirs out – they are probably the ones who will lose their book 6 months after leaving. But for those who are proud of their book, can maintain that same pride throughout their time – eagerly filling in the pages and having endless signatures.

I met a Staff member on a camp who still carries their Cadets F3822 with them – why? To prove that if they can carry it around 20 years on, and do so with pride, with 5 camps attended, two pages of other activities listed, 1 flight for each year they were a Cadet, a handful of shooting logs and a Gliding scholarship stamp in the back then it shouldn’t be difficult for the Cadets to bring it along to a Squadron bowling night!

On the flip side, there is a generation gap, that Staff member wouldn’t have had smart phones in their Cadets years, may not have had phones so carrying a book was the norm. should the book be updated to something the Cadets can engage with? Possibly, but as with all digital document nowadays – will it simply be lost in a file system at the back of a memory stick, soon to be in the bottom of a sock drawer and never stumbled across again?


#8

The ID thing must be Regional, at my old unit cadets could get on and off station simply by showing the 3822. It was much easier for them than it was for my CI’s who always ended up with escorted passes, but that was fine as they had cadets with them who were allowed to act as the escort.


#9

sometimes it can be where Mars lines up with Jupiter…it soon just became easier to have Staff escort the Cadets through the gate

I completely second your comment on CIs - i will never understand how a Driving Licence or Passport proves suitability to be allowed on site - my brother could do the same who has no involvement with anything Cadets or military, so understand why it is only “escorted” but that doesn’t make it the right way to treat CIs

one week a 19 yr old CWO allowed on site, the next a 20 yr old CI who isn’t - nothing has changed…!


#10

Lose the book and lose that part of your life. I still look back at my old 3822s and it reminds me of things I did like the photos I have. Too much of modern life is captured electronically and easily discarded, but then we treat everything as throw away today.
I know a lot of people who have left and found their 3822s in a box somewhere and the memories flood back. I know some will regard it as old hat, but how many ex-cadets on here have still got their 3822 and look at it occasionally and the words bring back memories, good or bad?

The only reason and the only reason HQAC want to look into alternatives is down to cost and the cheaper the better. However like everything they won’t have considered all of the costs involved. If it went card with barcode or chip, who would pick up the costs of the reader and writer? Would they keep with the same supplier of cards?

The idea of an app is great, until you can’t get a service. Then as said everyone needs to have a suitable bit of tech and it would need to be usable across all platforms. Another thing is everything HQAC have done around EWOW has been done on the cheap and this would be no different.

One of the women at work, said they had a power cut just after Easter and it took out several phone masts and it was like someone had cut her childrens arms and legs off and poked their eyes out.


#11

I understand if i im running an event I do have SMS access to all records of those attending


#12

Whatever it is it needs to resolve the problem of female cadets not being able to carry it because they don’t have pockets.


#13

two pockets in their shirts
pockets can be added to a skirt
or simply placed on the waistline
i have known some to slip thiers behind their brassard
alternatively in a handbag

i’m not saying 2 and 3 are perfect…but i if a pocket sized book can’t slip into a pocket…something has gone wrong!


#14

Exactly, I don’t understand this fascination with not using pockets…


#15

Shouldn’t need to be added, should be fit for purpose in the first place.
Not secure.
Even less secure.

And when do we allow them to carry handbags while on duty?

Something tells me you might not have ever been a young female in a uniform not designed for you (and barely even designed for adult females…)…

Their concerns are not to be dismissed simply because you don’t think they should be listened to.


#16

How about a card with simply just a QR code which can be scanned by a smartphone/webcam on a computer. Saves paper, saves fancy card reading tech, saves manually inputting stuff.


#17

The problem with that is it wouldn’t be valid when cadets go flying or gliding.

We need to check certain aspects of the 3822 to confirm cadets are eligible to fly.


#18

It’s not the books in particular. It’s pockets in general. My work pockets are stuffed with many many unnecessary things.

I know the books in that particular pocket aren’t great… Whilst me and the wife were cadets together we had this “discussion” about how bad the pockets are. But she just slipped in on her waistline under the stable belt.


#19

Could the VGS or AEF not simply scan the QR which would link to Bader and show relevant details…?


#20

Surely each trip will have an associated SMS activity (accurately populated) so the participants’ details are available (assuming they have internet access at the site)

An appropriate account should (ideally) be able to view previous flying data and update flying records online, digitally signing that update to validate it. The same sort of thing would be ideal for WHTs or other types of training.