Heart Start... (sorry)

I’ve been searching around, so I’m sorry Mods for creating another thread, but I can’t find what I’m looking for despite knowing I have seen it before…

If memory serves me correctly, as a heart start instructor we cannot teach others outside the organisation heart start and “sign them off”… Is there a reason for this? As St John’s are happy for us to certify fellow CFAV’s, and the organisation is happy to accept that as a baseline standard, so why not others outside the RAFAC?

I’m trying to give an answer to someone who has asked the above, and all I can remember is that we can’t do it. I’d gladly hear that I’m wrong. If I’m right I’d like to go back with more than just “No coz I said so”.

Thank you, and sorry if this is lurking and my search skills are in need of improvement!

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Heart Start is BHF not At Johns I think.

You’re right it is, replace St John’s with BHF…

Question still stands…

I’ve been told the opposite. I was told that we could teach others outside of the organisation, but we couldn’t use the ATC to supply certificates!

As for the actual question, I was under the impression that what we deliver as Heart Start differs from the BHF one. I think they just do CPR where as we cover bleeds etc too.

If that is true, you can find certificates online:

We got told we weren’t able to due to insurance.

“ It has been brought to my attention by HQAC Corp First Aid Officer, that a number of Squadrons from within Central & East Region have been delivering Community Heartstart Courses over the last 12 months. This practice must stop immediately as under no circumstances are we permitted to deliver community Heartstart courses.

I need to make it very clear that RAFAC instructors are not permitted to deliver to members of the public as we do not have insurance cover to do so. If the Squadron have a direct connection, as in parents/ gaurdians of cadets or civilian committee members, then we can support the delivery of a course, but this is the only reason Heartstart courses can be delivered that are not directed at Cadets or CFAVs.”

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I thought I’d seen this… and it doesn’t make a great deal of sense to me really… but at least I’m not going mad.

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I suspect that is true, given the MOD only indemnify members of the organisation.

It comes down to professional indemnity / public liability insurances I expect. If you are instructing externally, you would not be insured unless you hold appropriate professional indemnity or public liability insurance. The two are subtly different - PLI is about claims of injury, illness or property damage by a member of the general public against you/your organisation. Professional indemnity is about claims made by whoever you are training for professional negligence or mistakes you make - i.e. if you give them some incorrect training.

This situation is the same as in the AT world - instructing within the organisation you do not need your own insurance (as the MOD indemnifies) however if you start instructing privately you need PI / PLI insurance, which in some cases are provided via membership of the appropriate National Governing Body.

To that end I’d query the line in that piece that mentions parents/guardians. Civ com members are members of the organisation so I’d say that is OK.

BHF provide free PLI and PAI for affiliated groups and their instructors (like the RAFAC), so I’m not sure the insurance angle is correct ?

I know people within my region have done it for external types pre pandemic

Maybe as you are instructing outside of the RAFAC that is where the RAFAC insurance would draw a line, they can’t insure us for everything after all.

But if one were to get their own insurance, or to run a course at their own risk, then I don’t think you could be told that you can’t run the course…

If that’s the case then yes, I don’t see why it’s an issue. Although as mentioned above - is the insurance linked to the group or the individual?

Having just looked at it - the BHF doesn’t include any professional indemnity insurance. Not certain how necessary that is as a volunteer.

Years ago, and I’m going way back now, when the Annie’s first arrived en-masse on Sqns and Heartstart was new and shiny, we were told that we should be running Heartstart courses in the local community as it was part of the agreement in the Corps getting all the Annie’s, that we then trained the local community and not just the Squadron Cadets.

Unless that free PLI and PAI is conditional?

The heartstart course has been superseded by Call Push Rescue. I think if you want to deliver that training locally all you would need to do is register and show you have a more advanced qualification. They provide a set of 10 inflatable annies. I used to run free courses in C.P.R. when I had my own business.

How to use your Call Push Rescue training kit | BHF


Even more basic than HS.
Certainly looks that way.

This should be the new Blue Badge standard.

Especially if it simplifies the whole admin process.

Far far far too much admin and nonsense around something as basic as CPR training.

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The website does mention heartstart a few times, so it looks like heartstart is the level up from the very basic course.

Following the links it looks like free kits are only available to schools.

When I put in for some a few years back they were only giving them out to schools or new youth groups. So we weren’t eligible.