I think so? I can’t see why not, is it not in full AP1358? Where’s @wilf_san these days?
Don’t the NCO ones have giant special stripes for greatcoats? Or is that just bands?
Corporal stripes on one of the coats in the bottom right. Not just a drum major special.
Ah, so WO coats have epaulettes but no belts?
Negative the real question is where the fudge to find one.
Especially in medium plus size.
…Provided that everybody has one. So, practically speaking, they can’t be worn on parade / ceremonial.
That is the historically correct way to do it. The VR(T) did it that way, as did the RAuxAF with their “A” pins.
WOs and NCOs ought properly (if following the tradition of such insignia in the rest of the air force family), to be wearing RAFAC identifiers on the sleeves, not the collar - and that goes for No 1 SD as well.
Yeah theres larger rank badges on great coats
Only for London duties. The rest of the time is small ‘No1’ style
Ah my bad… Dont really see enougn of them to worry about it
Yeah it’s a quirk of the greatcoat, the RAF only really use them in London and to save constantly tailoring the ranks on them those units just stick with the London style.
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Just had a quick browse through 1358c for a quick refresher… Suprised (or not) to find zero guidance in there, although search on a phone can be inconsistent
Page 79 has a picture!
Of the officer wearing i was more specifically about snco insignia
Yeah, it does does need tightening up! Even a couple of lines of text would help
Yeah thats what i mean.
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Maybe a swift email up the WO chain is needed to who writes the AP1358c these days.
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I thought the historically correct solution was double size VRT pins on the collar? I’m sure I remember reading that and then finding there were NO suppliers?
Yes, the greatcoat pins were larger but of course, as you say, they were impossible to get.
But they were worn by officers on the shoulder straps of the greatcoat.
The original wording was:
RAF Volunteer Reserve Training Branch Gilt metal badges (VR (T)) 1" (2.5 cm) in height, for wear on the greatcoat and outerwear and ½" (13 mm) in height for wear on the No 1 SD jacket, are to be worn by all officers…
[Royal Auxiliary Air Force] Officers are to wear Gilt metal ‘A’ badges, ½" (13 mm) in height on greatcoat shoulder straps and 3/8" (9 mm) in height on all other uniforms…
Positioned as follows:
Jacket of No 1, 5, 6 and No 8 SD uniforms. …
Other Officers. [That is, not medical, dental, or chaplain] On the jacket collar, 1" (2.5 cm) above the inner end of the step opening midway between the outer edge and the inner (rolled) edge, placed in such a way that the badge is aligned vertically.
Greatcoats and other garments with shoulder straps.
Flt Lts and above. Midway between the top and bottom edges of the rank braid
Fg Off and below. With the bottom of the letter, contiguous with the bottom edge of the rank braid
For RAFAC WO and SNCO the obvious precedent would be the RAuxAF “A” badges, before they stopped wearing them…
Airmen and Airwomen. Airmen and airwomen are to wear distinguishing ranks slides on garments with shoulder straps and embroidered ‘A’ badges on both sleeves of No 1, 5, 6 SD uniforms and greatcoats, positioned as follows:
a. WOs. Position the ‘A’ immediately below the Royal Arms and Macr badge.
b. FS and below. Position the ‘A’ centrally and aligned vertically, ¼" (6 mm) below the bottom edge of the eagle badge.
The wearing of gilt ATC pins by WOs and SNCOs was a step away from the ‘normal’ and is a bit of an anomaly. If we had followed the RAF lead then we should have been wearing embroidered badges on No 1, No 5 and greatcoats.
The brass RAFAC pins on greatcoat collars works, but it’s not historically ‘correct’.
As has been mentioned above, the normal NCO rank insignia on greatcoats is the standard size ‘No 1 type’, with the exception that for FS a small embroidered crown was sewn on instead of fitting the brass crowns. Again though, they must have become difficult to acquire because I’ve seen a number of FS with metal crowns on greatcoats.
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That’s not a greatcoat. It was once, but it was tailored to make a ‘warm’.
Not sure why these aren’t standard on No 1s quite honestly. The staybrite crowns damage the jacket (if you make a cut) and I think they look a bit old fashioned whereas the army gets away quite nicely with embroidered crowns for CSgts
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If we had followed the RAF Lead the VRT pin would’ve never existed. The (Training) being a branch wouldn’t have been included in the pin, we by all precedence have just worn VR pins.
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