:?
Some of my Cadet’s are off L98 shooting next weekend and one has recently bought a GoPro camera (no jealousy…)
He asked me if he would be allowed to use a head mount and capture a video of him firing! I don’t know what the policy is for this but I don’t see any problem with it as long as it is safe & not blocking his hear defenders! It would be mounted like the picture below! I haven’t said that it is allowed as I don’t want to get his hopes up!
Anyone know?
Cheers!
Some of my Cadet’s are off L98 shooting next weekend and one has recently bought a GoPro camera (no jealousy…)
He asked me if he would be allowed to use a head mount and capture a video of him firing! I don’t know what the policy is for this but I don’t see any problem with it as long as it is safe & not blocking his hear defenders! It would be mounted like the picture below! I haven’t said that it is allowed as I don’t want to get his hopes up!
Anyone know?
Cheers![/quote]
One of the ACPs have restrictions on photography and shooting. But I think they only apply to photos which are published publicly in some way. The actual taking of them should be fine. Soldiers wear them in Afghanistan.
[quote=“Baldrick” post=18495][quote=“Mike8591” post=18494]:?
Some of my Cadet’s are off L98 shooting next weekend and one has recently bought a GoPro camera (no jealousy…)
He asked me if he would be allowed to use a head mount and capture a video of him firing! I don’t know what the policy is for this but I don’t see any problem with it as long as it is safe & not blocking his hear defenders! It would be mounted like the picture below! I haven’t said that it is allowed as I don’t want to get his hopes up!
Anyone know?
Cheers![/quote]
One of the ACPs have restrictions on photography and shooting. But I think they only apply to photos which are published publicly in some way. The actual taking of them should be fine. Soldiers wear them in Afghanistan.[/quote]
Soldiers wearing them is a little different. And is a bit of a double edge sword. A lot of people believe theres no point, its just for the “look at me” factor.
If I remember correctly the Cadet ACP says pictures/film must contain a safety staff and the weapon not to be pointed at the camera. Not much said about point of veiw.
Lets face it the Cadet probably wants to put it on facebook for bragging rights which might not be a good idea.
It may however be good to get some interest generated or footage for advertising the sqn.
Tricky question, I would be interested in a more thorough answer.
ACP 050 is the one you’re on about. Chapter 10 Paragraph 11 Section H has this to say
[b]h. Shooting.
(1) All Cadets to be supervised on the range and this must be shown in all photographs taken.
(2) Cadets must wear long sleeve shirts fastened at the wrist.
(3) Berets if worn must not interfere with ear defenders, ie not under the cups of the ear defenders.
[/b]
My copy may be slightly out of date however. I don’t see anything prohibiting your cadet from filming with his GoPro but at the end of the day it’s down to the RCO.
I would take that as a no then.
[quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=18498][quote=“MRAR” post=18497]
[b]h. Shooting.
(1) All Cadets to be supervised on the range and this must be shown in all photographs taken.
[/quote]
I would take that as a no then.[/quote]
ACP50 is the media guide and applied only when using them for publicity purposes. If personal then it’s not applicable.
So I take it as yes they can. If the RCO allows it
Depending on the lens/field of view, I doubt if “cadet involvement” would actually be shown whilst firing.
If, of course, if it is to record the whole range “event” from start to finish, that would be different.
[quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=18498][quote=“MRAR” post=18497]
[b]h. Shooting.
(1) All Cadets to be supervised on the range and this must be shown in all photographs taken.
[/quote]
I would take that as a no then.[/quote]
If you want to get funny, you could argue that you’re not taking photos and so the above doesn’t apply.
I can’t see a problem with it, provided it’s used correctly and doesn’t show people dicking around.
[quote=“Plt Off Prune” post=18499][quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=18498][quote=“MRAR” post=18497]
[b]h. Shooting.
(1) All Cadets to be supervised on the range and this must be shown in all photographs taken.
[/quote]
I would take that as a no then.[/quote]
ACP50 is the media guide and applied only when using them for publicity purposes. If personal then it’s not applicable.
So I take it as yes they can. If the RCO allows it[/quote]
Its going to be put on facebook for bragging rights, that can be argued as publicity. Its going on a public site.
The skills and drills of the person in question would have to be damn good. And that of everyone else shown on the footage. Everything on it would have to be squared away. It will come under heavy scrutiny if the wrong people veiw it.
Not to mention added security risks of it being shown on a public use site.
What about added trouble of people kicking up a fuss that we are encouraging kids to shoot etc?
Dont get me wrong I love shooting, I love that cadets shoot. I wouldnt be half the good shot I am today if it wasnt for basics and confidence I learnt in cadets, But photographing and video of shooting should be handling properly and strictly.
At the end of the day its for bragging rights, a “look at me” for the Cadet in question. Lets leave it to the promotional videos/advertising where it can be handled and vetted properly.
This old ‘the public don’t like seeing kids with guns’ argument was always used as a reason not to do arms drill, but it turns out that nobody actually cares and the public outcry over us ‘training child soldiers’ that the higher-ups used to threaten never materialized.
[quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=18503]Not to mention added security risks of it being shown on a public use site.
What about added trouble of people kicking up a fuss that we are encouraging kids to shoot etc?[/quote]
How is it a security risk? Range locations are hardly secret (try Google Earth), and everybody knows what types of weapons we have access to.
It’s the attitudes mentioned in your second point that we need to prove wrong. Shooting shouldn’t be a dirty little secret: the benefits (of which there are many) need to be publicised and shared.
You’re quite right that attitudes to shooting need change. The benefits are many and the risks few, but this isn’t the public perception of shooting.
If this footage is to be used for a positive nature (Sqn recruiting video for example) and the drills are PERFECT then I don’t see an issue. However if this is going to appear on YouTube, Twitter, Facebook or anything like this purely for bragging then it’s a no go.
Shooting gets enough bad press, let’s hope that this is for something positive and pro-shooting, not a video of a minor/cadet emptying the magazine of a Section 5 firearm as quick as they can…
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This old ‘the public don’t like seeing kids with guns’ argument was always used as a reason not to do arms drill, but it turns out that nobody actually cares and the public outcry over us ‘training child soldiers’ that the higher-ups used to threaten never materialized.[/quote]
Arms drill is a completely different topic, which I find shouldn’t be done by a cadet force. They arent an Armed Force so have no need to show it. But thats off topic.
I remember when it came out cadets couldnt shoot figure 11s. Which was ridiculous. This day an age with guns becoming more of a topic for people to jump on the band wagon about, it should be strictly monitered and vetted. Used only for promotional purposes. And if so should be done with sqn kit not personal kit, or in a way that unedited/vetted footage cant be used.
Its just purely for bragging rights. Facebook is a public site and could be misused.
I love shooting, I think the cadets need to do more of it. But it needs to be handled properly.
It’s the attitudes mentioned in your second point that we need to prove wrong. Shooting shouldn’t be a dirty little secret: the benefits (of which there are many) need to be publicised and shared.[/quote]
I am not saying dont do it. Or hide it.
I am saying it needs to be monitered and vettes correctly!
Double post :ohmy:
So let me get this straight.
You’re happy for cadets to fire full-bore ammunition on a military range even though they are not the ‘Armed Forces’.
But you think they shouldn’t do arms drill because they’re not ‘Armed Forces’.
Make your mind up, Lance-Private.
[quote=“Gunner” post=18509]So let me get this straight.
You’re happy for cadets to fire full-bore ammunition on a military range even though they are not the ‘Armed Forces’.
But you think they shouldn’t do arms drill because they’re not ‘Armed Forces’.
Make your mind up, Lance-Private.[/quote]
Wrong rank, fella. And its 2 completely different things.
Its target shooting. Not combat shooting. Using other firearms too. Civvies can do it, with 7.62 with correct Firearm certificates.
Arms drill is ceremonial to portray an Armed Guard or Force. And is executed with aggression. And in some cases is taken very seriously, bayonet waved in the face anyone? The Cadet Organisation is not either of those things. And has no need to. If I remember correctly your Colours dont even need an Armed escort/guard. It is not the hitler youth.
We have gone off topic.
I love shooting. The ACO should do more. And more technical shoots. But its a very sensitive topic especially in this day and age. Its best not to draw too much attention to individuals. Especially kids on open public domains.
It should all be kept to promotional videos and properly edited and vetted strictly.
Going to be a pretty boring video anyway.
[quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=18510][quote=“Gunner” post=18509]So let me get this straight.
You’re happy for cadets to fire full-bore ammunition on a military range even though they are not the ‘Armed Forces’.
But you think they shouldn’t do arms drill because they’re not ‘Armed Forces’.
Make your mind up, Lance-Private.[/quote]
Wrong rank, fella. And its 2 completely different things[/quote]
You’ve clearly never heard of irony, have you, Private?
Every range I’ve ran with cadets has had Fig 11 & 12 targetry. Same for a lot of RCO’s in the ACO. IIRC, cadets can fire on Stage III ranges and now firing from other positions has been introduced, they could technically - with the appropriate permissions - fire on IBSR ranges. Cadets fire on 25m, Gallery, Converted Gallery and ETR ranges together with DCCT. The only thing they don’t do is Field Firing.
Wow. I didn’t know that…
What aggression? Arms drill doesn’t need ‘aggression’ it needs prompt, timely and concise movements. You start introducing ‘aggession’ and that’s where wpns start flying out of people’s hands and THAT’S when it becomes dangerous.
Clearly, you guys in the Royal Army Sanitary Corps take it VERY seriously. I’m curious as to how you might ‘present’ toilet brushes. BTW - do you fix bayonets to the brushes?
When do bayonets get waved in peoples faces during arms drill? In all my years doing ceremonial arms drill, I never once had a blade ‘waved in my face’.
You remember correctly. It doesn’t mean that cadets can’t be trained in arms drill for ceremonial purposes. The ACO have qualified DI’s trained in Arms Drill and cadets can be trained in it again, with appropriate permissions. Get used to it, fella.
So you keep telling us.
More technical shoots? Like what? The ACO isn’t the Hitler Youth, y’know…
2 Different things as in Shooting and Arms drill. I couldnt care less about the rank, still wrong though…
It is fantastic that the ACO do these now and it is a good skill to have. Although when was it allowed that Cadets use fig 11? It used to be double “legs”. Regardless its all still target shooting, not combat shooting.
You missed my point with the FACert.
Its all controlled aggressive movments, you need to slap the weapon hard. Everytime I have done Arms drill my palms and arms take a beating. Cant have these poor kiddies hurting themselves now can we.
I am not from a Guards Regiment.
My bayonet reference was to the good lad at Buckingham Palace.
As far as I am concerned theres no place for it in the ACO. Its a youth organisation not an Armed Force.
Technical, as in distances, Scopes/not just iron sights, “colour box drills”, falling plates that sort of thing.
Didn’t know cadets could shoot Fig 11’s now!!
Back onto topic, The GoPro footage won’t show the view through the sights, or where the rounds actually land, so all you will see is the front of a rifle and a few bangs!!
Both still involve the use of full-bore service rifles. You can’t cherry pick just to underpin your argument.
The book still says that cadet targets must be used where available but in the absence of them, Fig 11 & 12 may be used. Out of curiosity, what do you define as ‘combat shooting’?
Sigh. Go look up the meaning of I-R-O-N-Y. :ohmy:
Dunno who taught you but if you’re ‘taking a beating’, something is wrong somewhere. Arms drill doesn’t have to hurt to do it correctly.
Part of me concurs [color=#ff4444]{REMOVED}[/color]. Now I’m curious - what Unit\Formation are you actually in? I’m betting Logistics Corps.
Ah, well, y’see, cadets won’t be doing arms drill at Buck House, will they? So there won’t be any risk of them having a bayonet waved in their faces or them waving it in others. What do you think the ACO are - the last line of defence?
Good job your opinion doesn’t count then. We also have this course called Junior Leaders and they run around in MTP and helmets; using blank & pyro. I wonder what you’ll make of that.
The ACO already do falling plate shoots. Do keep up.