Gliding "paused"

^ This.

VGSs appear to be currently running flat out flying as many cadets as possible.

That’s great. But the capacity still isn’t there.

IIRC, I saw a Facebook post a couple of weeks back from a VGS that had flown 100 cadets in a weekend (a remarkable achievement).

100 cadets x 52 weekends x 10 VGS = 52,000 spaces per year.

Except that 100 is a stretch goal. And there aren’t 52 flyable weekends in the year.

So let’s assume 75 cadets x 39 weekends x 10 VGS = 29,250 = less than one flight per cadet per year.

Obviously, none of this is VGS staff fault. There just isn’t enough capacity.

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All the chat about medicals is the sort of smoke and mirrors swerve tactic employed by the MoD/RAF/HQAC hoping people get absorbed in technicalities, so they can carry on and avoid actually dealing the real problem in meaningful manner.

As so often with air accidents, the medical status of the pilot was one of the factors; a major one, but others were important too. If you look at the recommendations in the AAIB report (on their website), there were also changes to the training and supervision processes; the ‘chairoplane’ being one obvious example.

On the subject of medicals and the “stats” which we can collect.

Is there evidence to indicate a Class1 is a “safer” option. Ie, of the BGA/local flying club instructors who only require class 2 incidents, how many of these were caused/as result of the medical status of the pilot?

I recognise that a Class1 pilot is a “healthier” pilot, but is it a bar that need not be reached?

We don’t apply a medical expectation on drivers of vehicles (yes I accept D1 requires it on application, but is a one off and never reviewed again) yet for flying pilots must not only be checked (and industry standard) but to the highest level available.

Is this really in line with ALARP? – specifically reasonably practical?

Take security checking for instance.

We are all (or will be) BPSS checked.

Many will be SC/CTC checked to touch weapons/be involved in shooting.

But why not go so far as DV checking??

If the evidence supports class 2 medical pilots are the cause of incidents and therefore are significantly more “dangerous” to fly with, then sure lets apply Class1.

But the more I think about it I cannot see how it is “reasonably practical” to apply the highest level of medical to an otherwise eligible pilot (appropriate licence and experience/hours) should the evidence suggest that a significant portion of incidents are a result of a class 2 pilot’s health which would have been picked up had they completed a class 1 check…

Cadets regularly fly solo on a Class 2 at Tayside… they’ve ignored it there.

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Cadets fly solo in gliders on a 6424

The question of instructing on a class2 has been raised to the CFMO she says if I remember the number correctly class 2 would be a 15% increase in incapacitation risk and they’ll stick with the RAF medical.

I have no idea how they worked out the numbers and from what data but that’s the reason given.

I wonder how she has derived that very specific number? Presumably she has looked at incapacitation statistics for holders of RAF medical vs Class 2. There can’t be enough RAF gliding instructors for that data, so she may have had to use the stats for all Class 2 holders.

I wonder if she has corrected for the age profile of the holders of those medicals? After all, quite a lot of GA pilots are quite old.

Also, is that a rate increase? (i.e. is it, say, a rise from a 1/100 risk to a 16/100 risk - which sound a lot - or a rise from a 0.01% risk to a 0.0115% risk, which is neglible)?

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Back at the coal face though.

Parents of Cadet whoever turn up and ask a few more than the standard questions about their upcoming offspring’s flying or gliding slot, specifically, who the Pilot will be, what qualifications they have, what medical they have, what is the aircraft etc etc.

Granted we cannot answer all those questions for either AEF, VGS or Civvy flying, but at least with the Civvy flying, we can easily provide a lot of the general information from the CAA or Flying school/ club website if they choose to read it and do the homework, for example medical standards, qualifications etc. We do not have access to that (easily / at all?) for military Flying, and we would be entirely dependent on saying, ‘it’s the RAF and Military don’t worry’.

I’m not trying to knock our service Flying and Gliding assurance set up here, but we can more easily provide assurance information for Civvy flying, even though its prohibited.

Just thought I’d throw that out there as a different way of looking at it, and happy to be corrected if any of the above is incorrect, but I think the above would be representative of what would happen on most Squadrons if questions of this nature were asked.

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I’ve faced that problem with CCFs where the school senior management want to see the risk assessment for third party providers …

Intersting point.

We get no sight of the assurance 2fts provide us.
What assurances do we actually get?

If I want to take cadets on a range, my ticket is checked.

Why dont we check the licences and medicals etc…

It’s all just a sham and a power trip for them. Empire protecting that is all.

Furthermore, cadet staff instructors take other cadets up gliding… once trained…

Yet we cant use a 5000 hour instructor from a BGA school…

Just pathetic.
Simply and utterly, goppingly pathetic.

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I hate to say it. But I think my mind is made up.

I would rather see 2FTS etc completly shut down and all cadet run aviation stopped in favour of allowing Sqns to source their own opportunities.

Overnight I could get all my cadets airborne.

Currently cant get a kite up without 2FTS having a seizure.

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If you want to know the medical requirements for any RAF aircrew look in AP 1269A.

Yeah. We dont get that on Sqns.
It’s not on sharepoint

None of the 2FTS training material is.

There is actually a lot of 2FTS related forms/publications on Sharepoint. But it isn’t in Key Docs. If you go to the home page and click 2FTS at the top (where the list of regions is) it brings you to their page. Within that area they have their own document library that has a lot of stuff in it.

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Yeah. I’ve looked through that.
Still has a load of Vig stuff. Lots of out of date.

Little of anything current or of value.

Then, that’s 2FTS…

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available via Google

https://manualzz.com/doc/28213079/ap1269a-master

but how do we know that a document on the googles is legit or current?

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fair point

both links are showing published 2016 but that was 5 years ago and could well have been updated since (although to answer the questions being posed would it be sufficient? - i suspect so)

I realise you don’t know, but another question is whether that was compared against class 2 having pilots, or class 2 having instructors.

Was it correctly equated and normalised between our x thousand flights and their 10000x thousand flights?

Time in the air, distance from the airfield, date of last medical, did their cat have kittens the night before, were any of those in the civvie stats out on a drunken jolly, were they testing their G Meter…

I originally went into a lot of maths here, but there’s too many unknowns to keep it sane. Bottom line is our occurrence is pretty darn low or we’d be shut down already and a 15% increase likely only takes days off the incident rate, not adds incidents per year.

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