FMT600 - apparently a 2 day course

Just called my parent station to ask about updating my FMT600.

I completed the D1 course at Leconfield last year and want to be able to drive service minibuses.

I was issued a ‘provisional’ FMT600 at Leconfield but apparently that doesn’t count for anything and I’ll need to book onto a 2 day course…

Is that normal?

I think it is becoming pretty normal as it helps to justify the existence of MT licensing and most people who need to use the system can skive off their day jobs to do it (or, to be fair, doing it is PART of their day jobs)

No, it’s not normal. You have been to the DST, you have passed a lawful test by approved DSA examiners, all you need is an MT600 issuing (maybe a local famil regarding your local station MT yard which you may never ever use, but they have an obligation to train you so if you attend any MT yard they are the same). They have ZERO examining qualifications to be able to determine if you are a suitable license holder. All they can possibly do is conduct a famil exerise on a vehicle, as they are competent license holders, but they cannot justify a two-day course to do that and in doing so they are burdoning the public purse. Tast your WExO to take on the issue - that’s what they are paid to do.

i completed my FMT600 for car then later went to DST for D1.

the instructor happily signed my FMT600 and when i went to “renew”/sign orders recently it wasn’t questioned.

two days seems odd…what is stretched out that far? perhaps understandable if wanting to fam drive you in all the vehicles but if DST have done it then why bother locally???

I have heard it stated as a 1-day farce but with an expectation that you have a 2nd day available should you make an ■■■■ of it.

I don’t know the truth but I do know that if they need me to do that when I get my 600 re-issued (this year) they can do one.

2 day course? They’re talking out of their chocolate starfish - all you should need to do is present yourself with appropriate licences, recent print from the DVLA of endorsements or lack of, provisional FMT600 and reading glasses (if your need them); read local orders and Bob’s your auntie. Sounds like a local empire builder…

What station is this ?


20 character limit…

At most stations a 1 day course (at least 1 day) is normal for a first FMT100 issue, regardless of previous qualifications.

I can’t understand the need for more than half a day.

Even if I understand what the process is, I can’t understand why it’s needed for me to drive a vehicle I’m already licensed for.

It’s essentially a hire vehicle, and I’d expect to be able to turn up at any civilian hire firm and drive away within half an hour.

It’s another issue that cripples the ability of new(er) staff to contribute effectively.

Another fun part of the MOD, I should be employed to have Arguments with MT… its all I seem to do.

Couple of questions.

Do you currently hold an FMT600, if so how old is it?
When did you last take a matrix test?
Do you have evidence of attending the D1 course (I assume your Driving Licence was amended)?

Couple of Answers

2 Day - Not normal or acceptable under any circumstance
Its not essentially a hire vehicle due to the manner the MOD operates its Car insurance and other liabilities/indemnities.

I don’t think anybody other than the MT kingdom understands the need for more than a couple of hours.

Sadly, as with all things, it’s designed to the lowest common denominator. Which is exceptionally low.

Pragmatic approach by Station MTs. No names, but I’ve access to three stations, all three have a different approach.

  • Station A. Half day, checking licence details, points on licence, do tick-test, etc, followed by 1hr-ish drive around the local area, town/counrty driving, driving skills including reversing into parking space.

  • Station B. Attend station, show licence and proof you have done tick-test, fill out paperwork, have it recorded and leave.

  • Station C. Send details of licence and proff that you hold on another station. No need to attend.

If you hold a driving licence and have the groups on it for the vehicle, why do you need to do anything, other than a basic famil like if you hire a vehicle, to know which is the indicator, light switch, washer top up etc etc?
I’ve had many hire cars and vans to 3½ tons at work for business and minibuses for cadets other than a sit in famil and licence check (work have a copy of my licence), I’ve never had to do a drive around.
When I’ve been on cadet camps I’ve had to drive around the station, which has been like a broken pencil.

To be honest I cannot understand the need to drive every vehicle (ie why if I fam on a car can I only drive a car, if the DVLA say I can drive a van, or half and half why do I need a new fam on those?) but understand the logic of the “theory” side of the day.

If the DVLA say I can drive it, no one else (other than insurance* I guess) cansay I can’t. but the paperwork to sign out the MOD Stores, in this case a vehicles, that is useful.
The various forms and papers that go with it, if only 90% forgotten three years later is useful to have in the back of the mind what is needed and what to do for X, before Y and after Z

*I guess this is where the issue is. As it is MOD “insurance” the fam-drive is the check of competency, much like a WHT or check flight. A F7257 maybe held with years of experience using a No8, or pilot log massing to 200+ hours but a WHT is still needed 6 monthly and check flights required 24 monthly…a fam-drive is proving the ticket held is still valid.

I’m guessing it’s this:

The law says you can hire a road roller, but any hire company wouldn’t let you walk out the door with the keys unless you had training.

I’ve hired a Pantech to move office and had no prior training in driving it. They did a run-through of the controls but no famil trip.

I’ve never been asked to prove my competence with a car, transit van, “luton” van or minibus and have hired all of those on several occasions.

I don’t want a road roller! Yes, that requires specialist knowledge in addition to the standard car license. What I want is a minibus, and I already spent a week becoming perfectly familiar driving a service minibus around the backstreets of Hull…

Don’t push this open door fella. I agree with you! I was alluding to the events where you or others may not have recently passed a course :slightly_smiling:

Afraid your slightly out
A hire company WILL hire you any item of roller / excavator most are used on building sites where they don’t need a licence officially although recommended to have had a training course.

Anyhow the main issue is if you are giving people company vehicles on company insurance they company need to carry out due diligence and check competence. Most employers will ask you to either fill a questionnaire and send in a copy of your licence every year to HR, others will sign up to an outside firm that will do it for them and then alert them to changes in your driving status. In the MOD they use the FMT600 as the checking system and the MT department then has ownership of it.
I recently had a hire courtesy car and they didn’t require to see me licence only that i had insurance