Flying - What Would You Do

Adult Staff The Staff Mess
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I don’t think I’ll get much disagreement that AEF flying is a mess at the minute, with cancellations etc, and it’s been debated to death on here what various solutions that the RAFAC could implement are.

From a slightly different PoV, I’m curious how people would do it if (given the hypothetical opportunity and a reasonable, but not unlimited cheque) you had the chance to totally implement the RAFAC’s flying provision from scratch as you saw fit, i.e. totally overhaul into something brand new.

Just a little thought exercise, that’s all!

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I would go back to basics.

What are we trying to achieve with the flying programme?

Answering that question should help work out its future shape.

Flying seems quite removed from everything else. Especially a lack of integration with the classification training.

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put simply reinstate ACTO035 - flying in private/civilian aircraft.

it was in place, it worked, it worked successfully and only came with understandable admin requirements.

while AEF is not what it was, i would not wish to throw it away by going 100% in a different direction.

ACTO035 permits us to complement AEF with greater flexibility of availability, aircraft types (and thus experiences) and of course geographical location.

Many Squadrons will have one, two or more flying/gliding schools closer to their door than their local AEF.

however, I am not convinced that answers your question, while at the same time it does – any approach which is a total overhaul into something brand new, while taking into account a limited budget i am not sure would offer anything different to what we have now via AEF/VGS.

Part of the issue is, both are run by Volunteers. VGS volunteer status is well understood, but AEF is almost the same. It is perhaps a “secondary pilot duty” and so paid, but an AEF pilot is not a primary role - the number of retired RAF Pilots who are retained evidence that (Air Vice Marshall Sir Roger Austin, ranked as a flying officer at 6AEF just one example)

The RAFAC also is a low priority for the AEFs – and so any desire to “work” weekends is limited, having shown that we can work around weekday allocations in some cases there is no appetite to return to weekend slots as that is an added requirement for all, despite being harder for the ATC to manage. In some cases weekend flying simply isn’t a possibility at all.

the options i see it are:

1 - all flying is conducted via AEF/VGS (as it is today)

2 - scrap (1) and covert to CAA/BGA flying completely

3 - a mix of the two

As you indicate, (1) the Status quo is not working, certainly not as well as it once was - for various reasons.

(2) I think would be firstly an embarrassment to the RAF to be outsourcing (further) AEF experiences to the civilian world – while it is not “scrapping the Red Arrows” it would cause uproar amongst the old and bold upset that the “mighty RAF” can’t deliver basic AEF to the youth of today who are the future of the RAF.

Secondly it removes any “control” the MOD/RAF/HQAC have over the Cadet experience and given “getting airborne” is supposed to be a USP, sets up a postcode lottery of the Cadet experience of what is on offer which HQAC and above will have no control over yet is supposed to be what sets us apart.

To retain any “badge” or PTS progression would tie the feet (perhaps that should be clip the wings) of these ACTO035 opportunities into a fixed MOD designed structure of tick boxes the Cadet needed to achieve, this will become a ballache for the CFAV to manage and constrain the civilian pilot in what they can offer – rather than just go off for a 20-30 minute bimble in a C152/PA-28 in the local area perhaps taking control to complete a turn or two, which is all the Cadets really want/have a handful of winch launches in a glider

Thus (3) is the only valid solution left.

Yes this still offers a post code lottery as each unit will have a different approach to ACTO035 opportunities and to a degree a case of “have and have nots” as there is a financial requirement to ACTO035 which the MOD will not consider and thus will need funding locally – either by the Squadron, the Cadets or a mix of both.

But ACTO035 flying doesn’t count towards any PTS syllabus or badges it is simply “in addition to” and to complement the MOD offer and so ticks the box for the Sqn CFAVs (and Cadets) that we’re getting our Cadets in the air.

While at the same time the organisation can still claim it is providing AEF opportunities to its Cadets, even if 70% of the flying that Cadets are doing is via CAA or BGA schools.

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I would outsource the experience element to an organisation that can provide it, like the BGA and local flying schools. I would expect private funds to pay for this.

I would then turn every AEF and VGS into a proper school and use them for proper scholarship training, with a caveat that they will still do AEF/GIC for units where they have no ability to pay for or no local BGA or flying club.

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I got thousands of hours flying on Fsx and P3D, I just need a plane and lots of fuel :nerd_face:

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My AEF, as an example, has no serving pilots and all are volunteers that have daytime jobs in the airline industry. Only our permanent staff, of which there are currently 4 and they are on the UAS’, are paid. Remember, most of our AEF Cadre are Flying Officers so they most definitely don’t do it for the VA.

I can only speak for my AEF but there are other limiting factors such as air traffic, engineering contracts and pilot availability. Please keep in mind that our pilots give up their days off to come and fly cadets. Many are away with work for a time, come back and then fly cadets on one of their 2 days off that week. We are coming up to the busiest times of the year for the airline industry and many of our pilots are full on at work, exhausted and want to spend time with their families so please don’t look at us with blinkers on. Personally, I’d take weekend flying back tomorrow but it’s just not that easy. We don’t have a radar service on weekends as our provider doesn’t work over that period. Given that we have a major airport nearby it doesn’t bode well. We operate in a small area that really needs a radar service especially when at altitude for aeros etc.

How is RAFAC low on the priority for AEFs? You are our primary business. We would not exist if RAFAC pulled the pin.

Again, I can only speak from my AEFs perspective but as it stands we are roughly the 3rd largest AEF in regards to catchment, looking after about 4000 cadets a year. Last year we flew 1333 cadets. Some slots were lost for varying factors, weather (our biggest issue given our location), engineering, airshows, cadet no shows and pilot availability.

Again, please don’t think that we enjoy cancelling cadet flying. We come to provide flying for young individuals. Most get into an aircraft nervous and shy having never flown before. They then get out after a 25 minute sortie with the biggest smile on their faces you’ll ever see. I’ve been doing this for almost 30 years and I see it all the time, it’s why we do it. Many will go on to join the military and state that it was their AEF experience that made them want to be a pilot. Many will succeed and many will fail however, the point is we, as an AEF, gave them that experience, that taste, that want to be a pilot in the military. Anyone can go to an aero club and fly in a Piper, but not everyone can get into a Grob Tutor, do 25 mins worth of aeros (and do a loop or barrel roll themselves), talk to a current, or previous, military pilot all for free.

As a side note: AEFs and VGSs are not the same. They are solely owned by RAFAC and have a different operating model than AEFs.

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hughes
hughes225×225 7.19 KB

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The issue with this is, at the moment, to provide instructional sorties on the Tutor you need to have attended an approved flying instructors course. These are done at RAF Wittering and the course is either 3 months (refresher if previously an instructor) or 6 months long. No volunteer pilot I know of that still works full time can commit to such a course.

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I would scrap AEF at RAF stations and try to replace with “opportunity flights”, such as sending a dozen or so (not sure of space capacity) cadets in Voyager on a refuelling practice, or night-time runway practice.

To pick up the flying training, increase the capacity at VGS sites/increase the number of sites.

This gives both the experience of the real RAF and hopefully increases the number of flying (gliding) opportunities at weekends.

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Question do you need QFi status to be a AEF pilot?

If not, why can’t holding pilots post EFT hour build at AEFs deployed around the country? Would bolster numbers atleast

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I thought this is what happened? I had a friend flying cadets whilst waiting on fast jet stream to free up?

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I still think you need QFI status which only a few get post EFT

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I remember joining the ATC as a cadet and being told 3 key facts:

  • I would get to fly at least 1x 20 min sortie per year
  • There would be opportunities to be a passenger in operational aircraft
  • For a small number, there would be a chance to get a PPL/NPPL.

Now the top 2 happened for me (usually multiple sorties per year, and several passenger flights in Sentry aircraft, Nimrod, Chinook and others). For the third, I hit first solo both for glider and microlight.

But the strategic situation today is different to the early 2000s. The RAF budget is tighter overall, AEF & operational aircraft are being used to support front-line operations in several theatres and we’ve all on here discussed the diminishing risk appetite from HQAC.

The question is less what we want to do with the flying programme and more a question of the existential reason for RAFAC’s being. Once this question is answered fully, which endeavours to support further becomes obvious. Perhaps direct flying training is something the organisation should support, but perhaps it isn’t and we focus on other activities that align more with what young people need to thrive when they join basic training.

In conclusion, the purpose of RAFAC is very hazy right now. It’s mission has become diluted and confused, and the situation nationally & globally has changed. Once we establish RAFAC’s purpose, we can focus on aligning activities to achieve that goal, cutting activities that don’t support that strategic direction and heavily supporting those that do. Flying may or may not support that strategic direction.

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We definitely lose cadets because there’s an idea of what we do and advertise, and then there’s the reality of what most parade nights can realistically involve.

Lack of flying is something that thins out new joiners, even though we’ve sent quite a lot flying and gliding over the past 12 months.

We also struggle to open our air rifle range because the staff training burden is so great for training people up.

That would be a huge USP if we could train people more easily.

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What’s the reason for that, versus the Viking? How do VGSs do it?

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No, but you do to provide instructional sorties.

We are already doing that. We’ve had 3 Holdies in the last 12 months that have helped with cadet flying.

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You don’t need to be a QFI to fly Tutor

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Not sure of your method of thinking here. Flying on Voyager would be just like flying on holiday. What would be the benefit of that? At least if it were a platform like Chinook or A400 then I get it but really…on an A330?

With your last comment, I assume you meant that flying on a Voyager would give an idea of the real RAF? It would give them an idea of getting onto an RAF station and onto an RAF aircraft, yes but not sure what you mean by real RAF. Some would take offence to that comment.

How would you increase capacity at VGS sites and/or increase the number of sites? How many sorties do you think a VGS provide each day, and it would only be weekends. I don’t have those figures but I can tell you we provide 40 cadet sorties per week. I really don’t think a VGS can provide that, although I wish they would.

When I started at my current AEF as a Staff Cadet we would fly 30 cadets on a saturday and 60 on a Sunday but we did have 10 aircraft and 10 pilots to fly them. Accepted many were Cold War era and some WWII veterans but those days are long gone I’m afraid.

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The Voyager was just an example picked out of the air (pun not intended), and perhaps “operational RAF” would be better language. If something is flying from A→B and back again, or A→A, stick some cadets on it if it has room, for the cost of some admin burden (theoretically).

We piggy back on the day to day operations of the RAF for these experiences instead of resources being put into tutor flights, so this hopefully means there is spare cash to do extra things.

In my case, lets direct that to gliding, I’m sure there are parts of the country with more provisions, and some with less, so an opportunity to balance that out at minimum

And as for just like flying on holiday, my last holiday flight didn’t have Typhoons following it :slightly_smiling_face:

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We last had a cadet fly 1 year and 3 weeks ago. From a squadron of 60 cadets! Admittedly, we had 3 weather cancellations, but all 3 were only offering us 3 places each. I moaned to the WAvnO who then offered us 12 places in March…..only for all March allocations to be cancelled to allow a handful of ACPS courses to run!

This last year has seen our highest turnover of cadets so far. When given a leaving interview, the vast majority cited the lack of flying as the reason for leaving.

How does that work legally/risk wise when Holdies finishing EFT only have around 25 flying hours, don’t have ‘wings’ and are therefore not yet RAF pilots?

I recently heard this still being said at another squadrons opening night. I really wanted to interject to help manage the potential newbies expectations, but I didn’t want to embarrass the new in post OC.

This is very very achievable yet, for some unknow reason, the organisations/VGS stubbornly refuse to pick up the pace. It has been debated to death on other threads. In simple terms, the VGS are, per cadet flight, 8 times as expensive as a BGA youth center. No one within RAFAC cares to explain why, or is bothered about it!

Why can a VGS only fly 6 cadets in one day, when my local gliding club can fly 30 scouts in one EVENING?

What you describe above sounds like a problem.

ACTO 035 sounds like the (simple) solution!

Yes, for the lucky few. What you are seeing at the AEF is cadets turning up and flying. Great. But what you’re not seeing is the vast majority back at squadron who are waiting for their - statistically proven elsewhere - 1 flight every 7 years!

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